The rogers v o’dowd is all a bit one sided here. The bottom line is rogers had to be dropped – not just for the teams sake but for his own sake as well (confidence being shattered etc.). whenever I played as badly as gary did in his last few matches I would have expected (and always bloody did) to get dropped. Plus when you drop a goalkeeper, it is never for just a couple of matches! The only think I would disagree with doolin about this is what he said to the papers (even though it was true.)
I think coltron has said our season ended with the Longford defeat, I think it was slightly later than that – the second shels goal in the tv game. That was the killer for our season, and it was another mix up between defence and goalkeeper – we have seen it happen often enough. (Now some will argue that there was still plenty to play for after that game (and their was), but the game realistically knocked the stuffing out of us. People can blame doolin for our results since then, but a big blow always knocks the stuffing out of teams, even the best ones – look at how arsenal have done since man united beat them.)
Anyway back to the goalkeeping. Rogers is easily a better shot stopper imo, however there is a lot more in goalkeeping than stopping shots. To me, Gary had ‘lost’ the back four after the shels match. How many times this season have we seen gary and grey argue after a mistake? In the shels match, grey just looked and didn’t even bother to argue – what was the point. Tony talks a lot more during the game, and does have a better command of his box than gary – and despite what people here will say, is not prone to as many silly mistakes.
I would love to see a confidence restored gary back as no.1 next season, with the silly mistakes eliminated from his game, but I imagine doolin only said what he did because he does not plan to use him though.
this is what I like about this site -open debate on football.
Some good points Colin but I would disagree on a few of them.
On O'Dowd, he is having a shocker just as Gary did, we have a third goal keeper maybe he should now be given a run (otherwise why do we pay him).
not saying o'dowd is doing brilliantly (was poor against bohs - awful second goal etc.), just there our little things that people ignore that he is doing better than gary.Originally Posted by SeanDrog
totally forgot about our third choice keeper. what is the point in having him if we are not going to use him at times like this when the other two are not in form. as you said sean - why do we pay him??
Col, sure what would you know, you're just a dodgy keeper!!
Btw, I know what you're saying but o'dowd isnt up to it. Fair enough give the 3rd choice his chance if you're dropping gary - but o dowd?? Forget about it. We'll see how many more he lets in before the end of the season
So, what are you saying? Col wouldn't have posted that on the old message board.
Anyway on the goalkeeping issue Col, how can you say that Gary "lost" the back four after the Shels game? We don't know that, as he was brutally and publicly axed straight away. His form wasn't bad before the Shels game and what should have happened in the aftermath, of admittedly a shocking performance, was for the manager to sort out the problems on the training pitch.
As for O'Dowd. How can you say he comands his area better than Rogers. He doesn't come for crosses and any that do end up in his vicinity he completely messes them up - I think because he is (put very simply!!) too old and too stiff, basically he can't jump!
Rogers on the other hand, while his success rate is at times questionable, will come for crosses that are outside his six yard box.
O'Dowd is a liability and any Drogheda fan I have spoken to at games tends to agree.
Last edited by WindmillWarrior; 10/11/2004 at 10:21 AM.
Windmill the old board was becoming infected with "false" posters/****e stirrers" - people with many sign on names and most of them were people who are heavily involved in the club. They used this tactic to try and drive the party line down peoples throats or else they used it to try a ridicule regular posters opions etc to drive them away - and it was working.
This site is heavily regulated by the foot.ie team and anys such going on's would be picked up straight away and the people barred.
the reaction from his defence after that blunder, was a reaction that i have seen up close a few too many times
i honestly believe his decision making is much better - and i think we are more comfortable in dealing with crosses into the box etc.
small example - little things in games change season. anyone remember (of course we do) longford's winner in the cup. we had 8 or 9 outfielders camped well inside our own box, dillon was given time to get a shot off - he should not have that time.
typically when a defence starts to lose confidence in a goalkeeper, the play deeper and deeper - remember england in euro2004 - they bloody defended the six yard box. we appeared to do that with gary - hence dillon had so much time outside the box.
now, dont get me wrong - that was a great goal (and not gary's fault), but the oppurtunity arose for a reason - we defended too deep, and didn't step out either.
i dont believe o'dowd is doing well by any stretch of the imagination - but he is doing no worse than gary was in his last few matches . every small mistake he makes is picked up on by the crowd, with gary it is mostly ignored cos well he is a drog, and as o'dowd admitted in the DI he is a 'rover' .
and believe me, leaving a keeper in who has no confidence is no benefit to either the keeper or the team.
Take your point about a defence dropping deeper and deeper when confidence is low in a keeper but I don't think thats the case here. For the Longford goal you mention (the b*stards!) I also don't believe that to be the case. Do you remember the Longford attack in the build up to that goal? Well I bloody well doSpud Murphy waltzed up the left side of our midfield and played the winger in on the by-line. He was in for the cross so obviously we had many players, as you say, in the box including midfielders (at that stage of the game no one wants to lose a cup semi). The cross came over and was quickly cleared and this was why Dillon had so much time and space. Nothing to do with low confidence in the goalkeeper. Maybe we were a bit slow in getting out of the box but in fact a Drogheda player actually did get painfully close to getting a block on the shot.
I'm guessing personal experience!
Col I dont think we'd have left in as many goals lately if Gary was in goals. He's by no means perfect and always prone to mistakes but a choice between hin and o dowd?? No contest
I think we might see a change in the goalkeeping position for next season anyway.
Btw, Sean - got ya!
Also Seans theory on the old mb is correct
As I said yesterday Rogers is a long way off being the finished article but any right minded human being would argue that he holds more ability than O'Dowd. Probably the one thing that annoys me about Gary is his silly ability to sent routine kick-outs over the sideline. The number of times he did that during the second half of the semi-finall replay was terrible.
Yes, he was shocking against Shels but the manager hardly instilled confidence in him with the lashing he gave him in the press. Lets not forget here that he is only 23 years old and has a lot to learn but he definately has the talent to be very good, whereas O'Dowd is coming to the end of his career and probably won't be at United Park next season.
Here's a question, we all know there are quality 'keepers in the league but realisticlly who are Drogs gonna poach? Unless Doolin has his eye on someone on foreign shores willing to join the EL. There's no doubt Steve Williams is the best in the league but other than him (maybe Devine on a good day) can match him. So from that point of view Rogers is not a bad bet to go with for 2005 but I suppose if Doolin doesn't like the guy - its curtains for him.
Why dont one of ye who spends a lot of time on here ask Dahamsta and he might make one of ye a moderator on here to stop that happeningAlso Seans theory on the old mb is correct
Oh no not them again
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