That's pretty much it. Without looking at the link, Holland is more or less the area around Amsterdam, The Hague and Rotterdam, so the analogy of calling Ireland "Leinster" is a very good one.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
Ah maybe that was it...Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Except don't the Dutch fans sing "Jup Holland Jup"?
I knew that technically Holland isn't the name of the country but isn't it pretty much accepted that the two are interchangeable? I'm pretty sure I've heard the Dutch themselves do it in normal conversation.
Er, like I said...
they seem to have gone downhill a bit, they 're not the team that walloped us.
Netherlands 0-1 down at home to Kazakhstan.
Italy drawing 0-0 against Azerbaijan.
Approaching H-T.
Think it would be ridiculous to expect a walloping of Gibraltar on a silver platter when you see teams like Spain, Netherlands and Italy results/scores this week. Then again, there shouldn't be a reason why we can't spring a surprise on Germany either.
There are no black and white lines. Part of the reason why we have such a miserly record against teams like Germany - even compared to our neighbors - is because we are overawed by them and it reflects itself in player performances, strategy and inability to close out games.
If Slovakia and f***ing Kazakhstan can do it why can't we? As bad as Ward is and Whelan is, they have a far inferior talent pool to us.
Last edited by TheOneWhoKnocks; 10/10/2014 at 7:35 PM.
Just bumping this thread...
Except Holland & Italy both win, plus both have a reputation with their fans, for being complacent. Germany, in their own backyard, surely, won't be.
Slovakia's was a good result, but it's obvious as Tricky suggested, Espana are in at least a short-term decline.
It is great to see you acknowledge that a player of McGoldrick's age could be an asset to Ireland. But, how can you claim that Lenihen should be considered on his form for Cork, but dismiss Christie as he played for Coventry? There is no logic in such an argument, in fact it could be argued that playing for Coventry is at a higher level than playing for Cork. Quoting statistics too in comparing Doherty to Christie is silly. Have you actually watched Christie? As a long suffering Coventry fan, I have watched him play at that great venue Sixfields and he is a young and relatively inexperienced player. I don't think he is completely ready for international football yet, but he has all the abilities to be a good footballer. No one except possibly you seems to believe that players who declare for us will simply walk into the Irish team, what most seem to feel on here is that it just increases our options. I wish you should see this rather than indulge in paranoia aboutplayers being dropped and it affecting squad morale, O'Neill and Keane are experienced managers who know how teams work.
Ultimately once a player is playing in England at a decent level, whether he has moved from LOI or come through the ranks, capping him aids his development, increases his profile in a busy division, and increases his chances of a move to a club at a higher level.
For a player who is still over here if he is getting good enough he will be one of the best players in the LOI. Scouts from the clubs will be aware of him, and crucially the players he is competing against for a move are all Irish. If we can do anything to load the deck for a lad by giving him international experience, there is no benefit for us to do it for someone at the expense of other Irish players.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
I was watching the game, on another night it would have been 5-2 to Spain. Slovakia spent most of the second half defending on the edge of their own penalty area, and watching Costa shank another shot straight at the keeper or into the crowd. He had a terrible game, no idea how he was left on for the full 90 minutes.
Slovakia had about five chances on the night, and scored two of them. It's football, sometimes these things happen.
and I've merged the two threads
I'd take a lucky win or a brave loss over getting spanked any day of the week.
I have no problem with a smash and grab win even at the expense of a poor performance but we never get them.
Is this proven to be the case or is it just received wisdom? I think I remember Nigel Worthington talking about capping Irish League players for NI in the hope it would help raise their profile and perhaps engineer a big move for them. Big moves very rarely, if ever, transpired. I don't think such a consideration would way massively on the minds of scouts and analysts who have much more reliable stats and much more effective indicators of ability from which to judge players nowadays. Look at Sean St. Ledger, for example; he is a 29-year-old with 37 caps for us, yet he can't find a club at the minute. Not that I'm necessarily doubting his ability.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 11/10/2014 at 11:03 AM.
True. Having a goalie dive out of the way of a shot, or fluffing a back pass (Boruc in Windsor Park v Poland) always helps of course.
Except in our last international?
Is he not still injured? And has barely played in the last year?
I'm talking about smash and grab wins against any halfway decent opposition. We have constantly thrown away 3 points against teams of stature. Other teams ability to not panic and retreat like a turtle in the face of good opposition and close out results is admirable.
Likewise I have no problem believing wins against teams like Georgia aren't formalities. It was some of the strategic decisions which were absolutely maddening.
Nothing is black or white. We have got lucky against teams like Georgia and Macedonia plenty. Likewise, plenty of teams of stature have been left wondering how they took points off us/how their opposition commits seppuku so readily.
Last edited by TheOneWhoKnocks; 11/10/2014 at 11:26 AM.
Yes. And having a referee award you a goal when it shouldn't have been given due to offside helps as well; and Spain still couldn't get anything out of the game.
That's unlike you.
It's not as if we willingly commit suicide as a customary ritual. We habitually retreat and shut up shop, which so often has the effect of inviting pressure on. We can attempt to soak it up, but that can only last so long. Often, we pay the price. It's very difficult for an entire team to collectively and immediately shake itself out of such a malaise once it sets in. It's both physically tiring and mentally draining/nerve-wracking, which, in turn, only increases the potential of making an error or a slip-up. There's little mystery to it.We have got lucky against teams like Georgia and Macedonia plenty. Likewise, plenty of teams of stature have been left wondering how they took points off us/how their opposition commits seppuku so readily.
It's also unfair to put away victories against the likes of Georgia and Macedonia down to luck. They didn't just happen by chance. We ground out deserved victories by maintaining pressure up until the final whistle. That's how you score goals, whether they're late on not. Sometimes, you'll have bizarre one-off incidents, such as those Stutts highlights, but by and large, you create your own "luck".
You can find something to admire in Ireland soaking up pressure and eking out victories against eg. Macedonia and Georgia but you damn Scotland with faint praise when they go to Germany and lose by slim margins. Strange.
Agree with what you said in the first paragraph. They say definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again. It was more dangerous playing the way we did against eg. Austria in Dublin than the way we should have played and trying to go for the killer blow to give us some genuine breathing room. I could not understand the logic of it at all; invite them on us after they had already snuffed out that we were hesitant, unsure and mistake prone on the ball even when theoretically under no pressure, like in the build up to their first goal. Suicidal.
To try and close shop after 70-75 minutes is grand but we were doing it after going in front on 30-35 minutes of matches! You cannot sustain that.
Ironically when we were leading Italy 2-1 in Dublin, That was the one time Trapattoni had the players going gung-ho for no reason at all. Put the shutters up when it doesn't make sense and not when it does!
Last edited by TheOneWhoKnocks; 11/10/2014 at 12:49 PM.
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