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Thread: The John Delaney Thread

  1. #1241
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    I could be wrong, but when I was on the NGB of a different sport, we had three signatures for cheques (President, Hon Treasurer, or Hon Secretary). Any two was sufficient, didn't necessarily have to be the Treasurer.
    And we were under the aegis of SPort Ireland, so if it was acceptable for us, I'd imagine it would be acceptable for the FAI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    You would likely need two online banking authorisations, but I would be surprised if the honorary treasurer was one. He'd be too inaccessible. The Director of Finance would probably be one. Delaney would likely be another, but there'd be others too. Rea Walshe possibly. Somebody senior like that.
    Online banking is usually limited to about 10k or 25k depending on country and/or bank, both ways, into(from Delaneys) and out of(paid back into Delaneys) the account. SO any transfer would have to be done in person or over the phone I'm assuming. Therefore I'd assume there has to be two signatures from the board or one from CEO and one from Treasurer, but perhaps the board are far removed from this "day to day" running of the FAI?
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  3. #1243
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    Online banking is usually limited to about 10k or 25k
    No it's not.

    Take the company's monthly supplier pay run. That could easily be €250k+ at one time. That would be done in one pay file uploaded to the bank and authorised by 1/2 relevant parties (not including the person who prepared the file - probably the FD). This would be done each month.

    Also consider the wages pay run - do you think wages are paid in batches of max 10k at a time? Of course not.

    The limit is definable but could easily be 500k if needed.

    Individual payments also have a definable limit - but no reason for it to be capped at 10 or 25k. Those would be quite low in fact.

    No Board would be involved in something so mundane as signing cheques or authorising online banking transactions. That's not the function of a Board.

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  5. #1244
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    Monthly suppliers is not a BACS or CHAPS payment, this would have been a one-off payment so it would go through the normal fraud checks. DD/SO's are different but this would have been a one off payment and therefore I think it is under different criteria. But ya maybe they have pre-agreed limits with the bank for such payments, although in the UK Business accounts are definitely limited bank side on one-off payments, for online transactions*. Its all about protecting the bank, not the client.

    *Wasn't clear, for any new payments to a new account. In the original post I thought I'd mentioned that.
    Last edited by paul_oshea; 25/04/2019 at 10:43 AM. Reason: New Accounts.
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  6. #1245
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    Well the limits for one-off payments still aren't 10 or 25k - they can be higher if required. And again, the Honorary Treasurer wouldn't be authorising those.

    But the papers have reported that there's a remittance for an "invoice", which leads me to think it was repaid in the monthly supplier/creditor payrun - again, the Treasurer wouldn't have any involvement with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bennocelt View Post
    Correct. I also remember reading that the furniture company lost money two years running and that poor old John had to bail them out with a loan of some type!
    It's registered office appears to be in Tipperary and it's called Gerfurn.

    Strangely enough, it has no employees!

    https://fora.ie/john-delaney-company...25820-Jan2018/
    Last edited by jimhacker; 25/04/2019 at 12:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Well the limits for one-off payments still aren't 10 or 25k - they can be higher if required. And again, the Honorary Treasurer wouldn't be authorising those.

    But the papers have reported that there's a remittance for an "invoice", which leads me to think it was repaid in the monthly supplier/creditor payrun - again, the Treasurer wouldn't have any involvement with that.
    I only know BOI In ROI, but in the UK hsbc/santander and Natwest business accounts limit new payments to new accounts online to max 25k. You have to get a written mandate(which can be faxed, but must be signed; most banks havent adopted DocuSign or Adobe sign as yet) for one-off payments above this amount.

    Isnt the Treasurer normally on a Board though? He prepares the accounts for the boards surely? S/he signature and one other is required.

    But the Invoice would suggest its a "payment" and that is not the same as a loan, that's deliberate concealment.
    Last edited by paul_oshea; 25/04/2019 at 12:58 PM.
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  9. #1248
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    I only know BOI In ROI, but in the UK hsbc/santander and Natwest business accounts limit new payments to new accounts online to max 25k.
    New payments to new accounts maybe. But that's a niche payment. And there's no such limit with BoI.

    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    Isnt the Treasurer normally on a Board though? He prepares the accounts for the boards surely? S/he signature and one other is required.
    The Treasurer doesn't prepare monthly accounts; the Financial Controller/Finance Director does. The Treasurer is an honorary role (the hint is in the title "Honorary Treasurer"). He'd really be there to offer some oversight and strategic advice. He's not a full-time employee of the FAI and there's no way any large company could properly function if a part-time Board member was needed to make payments, or to prepare the accounts.

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  11. #1249
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    New payments to new accounts maybe. But that's a niche payment. And there's no such limit with BoI.
    But surely this was a "niche" payment, an extraordinary payment that's not normally executed?

    Ya Honorary treasurer is not the same as treasurer, same as president isn't the same as honorary president. But I get what you are saying, on many boards the treasurer brings in the Auditer/FC for the AGM.
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    No - this was just a repayment of a loan. No more niche than paying JD his expenses or his salary (assuming his expenses and salary were normal of course)

    Seriously, the Treasurer would never be involved with something so basic as authorising payments. Way below his pay grade. And nothing unusual about that.

    The comment about bringing in the auditor/FC for the AGM is irrelevant to anything here.

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  14. #1251
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    I love you Stu.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    No - this was just a repayment of a loan. No more niche than paying JD his expenses or his salary (assuming his expenses and salary were normal of course)

    Seriously, the Treasurer would never be involved with something so basic as authorising payments. Way below his pay grade. And nothing unusual about that.

    The comment about bringing in the auditor/FC for the AGM is irrelevant to anything here.
    Fair enough, I dont think a Directors loan or vice-versa is a normal everyday transaction(hence the whole furore about it) in a companys accounts - many cases DL to cover excess expenses/payment made in an accounting year - but the line item itself wouldn't be extraordinary.

    The treasurer for GAA county boards is in involved in those sorta things but the FAI wouldn't be run in a similar fashion so point taken there.
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    As Delaney directly referenced the Kerins case when he refused to actually engage with the Oireachtas Commitee, today's Supreme Court ruling that the PAC acted unlawfully has some relevance: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019...c-rehab-group/

    As far as I understand it, this means that all Oireachtas Commitees are going to have to be on a tight leash going forward (until there is some kind of legislative change?).
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

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    So where are we right now?
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  19. #1255
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    First governance report has gone to the Board today.

    But all quiet the last while alright. Bit like yourself

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  21. #1256
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    First governance report has gone to the Board today.

    But all quiet the last while alright. Bit like yourself
    Busy busy man. But the submission deadline is in sight.

    That being said...

    Quote Originally Posted by INDO
    The FAI are remaining tight-lipped on reports that John Delaney is still being paid his €360k CEO salary.

    Delaney is currently on 'gardening leave' from the association pending a series of investigations into the FAI's finances and corporate governance issues. He stepped down as CEO on March 23, following the fallout from revelations in the Sunday Times that he gave the association a €100k 'bridging loan' in 2017 with the transaction not lodged in company accounts.

    A new position, executive vice president, was created for Delaney with the FAI confirming at the time that "the salary is substantially less than the salary he previously received as CEO".

    Delaney's salary as executive vice president is reportedly €120k-per-annum, but the Irish Daily Mail reported today that he is still being paid his CEO salary of €360k.

    When contacted about the reports, an FAI spokesperson told Independent.ie: "We don't comment on individual contracts."

    Meanwhile, the FAI is to have a new 12-person board containing at least four female and four independent directors.

    These form part of the main recommendations made by a governance review committee established in the fallout of the crisis over John Delaney's €100,000 loan to his employers.

    The eight remaining members of the board will today be presented with a draft report in Limerick.

    If approved, it will need to be ratified by a two-thirds majority at the FAI AGM on July 27.

    The governance review committee is chaired by Aidan Horan from the Institute of Public Administration. He was joined by fellow Sport Ireland nominees, Dr Moling Ryan and Joe O'Leary, along with FAI delegates Niamh O'Donoghue and Rea Walshe.

    O'Donoghue was the first - and remains the only - female member of the FAI board.

    Gender balance is understood to be a core finding of the review carried out for the past eight weeks.

    A move to recruit independent directors, which was a recommendation as far back as the 2002 Genesis report, is another integral plank of the report.

    Another change proposed, it's believed, is the reduction in volume of the 58-person council. They will also reduce their annual meetings down from four.

    Also on the agenda is the scrapping of the secretary and treasurer roles. Both are currently vacant after Michael Cody and Eddie Murray resigned in the wake of the controversy surrounding their close ally, Delaney.


    https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-38216419.html
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