Dundalk Fined For Palestine Flag at Euro Game

**ArdeeBhoy** · 12/09/2014, 10:01 PM

Rumours doing the rounds earlier on social media of a Pats fan getting arrested earlier, in a OTT manner, for wanting to bring a Palestinian flag into Richmond, don't know if true?

**ArdeeBhoy** · 12/09/2014, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

That's all well and good, but what use is it to Dundalk in the here and now? What can Dundalk do to challenge UEFA, even if they wanted to?

Kick up the biggest possible stink about it possible. Fans should write at the very least to their MEP's to highlight the issue.

**wonder88** · 12/09/2014, 10:14 PM

It was a Bohs fan according to twitter. Maybe the Pats owner has a policy of not allowing Palestine flags into his ground. Still I am very surprised if someone could be arrested for having a flag. Time to get R Sadlier's view I think.

**outspoken** · 12/09/2014, 11:42 PM

My mate saw the guy getting arrested was just over by the chipper van, a lot of gardai involved and very aggressive according to him.

EDIT: just seen the video online looks very very OTT

**The Donie Forde** · 13/09/2014, 7:43 AM

Seemingly, the Israelis have threatened to occupy any LOI ground displaying Palestinian flags. I wouldn't be too harsh on our own authorities for trying to avoid this.

**nigel-harps1954** · 13/09/2014, 9:06 AM

Originally Posted by The Donie Forde

Seemingly, the Israelis have threatened to occupy any LOI ground displaying Palestinian flags. I wouldn't be too harsh on our own authorities for trying to avoid this.

Well, if it puts extra bums on seats it might be worth a go..

**Dodge** · 13/09/2014, 9:21 AM

Originally Posted by wonder88

It was a Bohs fan according to twitter. Maybe the Pats owner has a policy of not allowing Palestine flags into his ground. Still I am very surprised if someone could be arrested for having a flag. Time to get R Sadlier's view I think.

He was arrested because he refused to allow Gardai search his bag, and then pushed a Guard

It was nothing to do with a flag. Nor can Pats owner ask for someone to be arrested, but then you know that

**ArdeeBhoy** · 13/09/2014, 11:15 AM

Is this the video?
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=717131195002341

**DannyInvincible** · 13/09/2014, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Kick up the biggest possible stink about it possible. Fans should write at the very least to their MEP's to highlight the issue.

What might kicking up a stink achieve though? Even if local MEPs did care about the matter - a minority of supporters wronging their club without any consideration for the consequences - MEPs don't have the authority to make UEFA's punishment disappear. The fact remains that Dundalk were in breach of agreed competition regulations as a result of the conduct of some of their supporters who were themselves in breach of ground regulations to which they'd agreed to adhere by virtue of their presence in Oriel Park. The legality of the punishment is not in question and there is no issue insofar as nobody has been mistreated. The decent thing would be for the supporters to accept responsibility and somehow cover the fine they cost their club.

**Dodge** · 13/09/2014, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

He was arrested because he refused to allow Gardai search his bag, and then pushed a Guard

I should point out Bohs fans think this is (very) wrong. I wasn't there and the earlier post was based on what others told me

**ArdeeBhoy** · 13/09/2014, 11:35 AM

Hear what you say DI, but vehemently disagree. Have UEFA ever even been challenged by MEP's?

Change only comes from challenging the established order. Including the clowns in UEFA.

**DannyInvincible** · 13/09/2014, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Hear what you say DI, but vehemently disagree. Have UEFA ever even been challenged by MEP's?

Change only comes from challenging the established order. Including the clowns in UEFA.

UEFA are no saints, but in this instance, and as unfortunate a situation as it is for Dundalk, they've not actually wronged anyone. What would an MEP challenge them on? How would they go about forcing change? UEFA are a private organisation, membership of which is voluntary and conditional upon acceptance of the organisation's regulations. Nobody is compelled to join. As a member association, however, the FAI voluntarily adhere to these regulations, as do Dundalk, in turn, as they're aligned with the FAI as members of the LOI. You either conform to the rules - some of which may indeed be pretty stupid - or you don't take part in the party. You either accept all or nothing. There's no middle ground or picking and choosing which rules you would like to apply to you. UEFA aren't a public body over which MEPs can wield political influence. Regardless, all this talk of getting local MEPs involved still ignoring the immediate fact that Dundalk have still had €18,000 deducted from their competition bonus because of the conduct of a minority of irresponsible supporters. Why shouldn't these supporters be held responsible for their actions? By their entry into the stadium, they agreed without qualification to adhere to the ground regulations in effect. One of those regulations demands that persons in attendance comply with the instructions of the stewards. By breaching those regulations, they broke what you could call a legal promise to their club.

**White Horse** · 13/09/2014, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

He was arrested because he refused to allow Gardai search his bag, and then pushed a Guard

It was nothing to do with a flag. Nor can Pats owner ask for someone to be arrested, but then you know that

It is very unhelpful to post hearsay as fact.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 13/09/2014, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

UEFA are no saints, but in this instance, and as unfortunate a situation as it is for Dundalk, they've not actually wronged anyone. What would an MEP challenge them on? How would they go about forcing change? UEFA are a private organisation, membership of which is voluntary and conditional upon acceptance of the organisation's regulations. Nobody is compelled to join or conform. As a member association, the FAI voluntarily adhere to these regulations, as do Dundalk, in turn, as they're aligned with the FAI as members of the LOI. You either conform to the rules - some of which are indeed pretty stupid - or you don't take part in the party. You either accept all or nothing. There's no middle ground or picking and choosing which rules you would like to apply to you. UEFA aren't a public body over which MEPs can wield political influence. Regardless, all this talk of getting local MEPs involved still ignoring the immediate fact that Dundalk have still had €18,000 deducted from their competition bonus because of the conduct of a minority of irresponsible supporters. Why shouldn't these supporters be held responsible for their actions? By their entry into the stadium, they agreed without qualification to adhere to the ground regulations in effect. One of those regulations demands that persons in attendance comply with the instructions of the stewards. By breaching those regulations, they broke what you could call a legal promise to their club.

Aye, probably, even more reason for them to be challenged then!

**DannyInvincible** · 13/09/2014, 2:24 PM

But challenged how? Via what process?

**Martinho II** · 13/09/2014, 4:16 PM

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Is this the video?
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=717131195002341

correct! as Outspoken said I was at the pats game and happened to just walk away from that chipper after ordering my food! as I was walking by all hell broke out loose and I turned around and seen a fan lying on the ground in handcuffs and three cops around him! his mates goin hell for leather why he was arrested! I had no idea who it was-whether it was Bohs or Shels as he had no jersey or scarf on him! I went quickly back to my seat!

**ArdeeBhoy** · 13/09/2014, 5:40 PM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

But challenged how? Via what process?

More flags, direct action/protests...
C'mon Danny, you're a Doire man. Should know how these things work.

**Charlie Darwin** · 13/09/2014, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I should point out Bohs fans think this is (very) wrong. I wasn't there and the earlier post was based on what others told me

You should edit that into your original post. If people only see that they could assume you were reporting what you saw yourself.

**DannyInvincible** · 13/09/2014, 8:23 PM

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

More flags, direct action/protests...
C'mon Danny, you're a Doire man. Should know how these things work.

I'm not sure how such measures would actually work though. More flags where? At European games next year? That would simply provoke further fines, would it not? What sort of direct action against UEFA? What form would the protest take? What would it achieve and who exactly is going to protest? None of this will change the fact that Dundalk have been fined due to the behaviour of an irresponsible few of their supporters acting against the best interests of their club. League of Ireland clubs don't have loose money to be flushing down the drain. If a small group of fans are going to breach their club's ground regulations and cost their club €18,000 for further breach of competition regulations as a direct result of their conduct, the very least they could do would be to take responsibility for their actions. It's a very reasonable expectation. I understand that Shamrock Rovers supporters, for example, acknowledge responsibility for their actions and cover any FAI fines their club incurs as a result of their use of flares and smoke bombs. That's a reasonable and decent position.