TEL AVIV - Don't Hold your breath

[Éanna]

Israel does not seek apartheid in its sporting teams. It has no apartheid in the elections aswell, although discrimination is another matter. Israeli Arabs (those living within Israel proper) are entitled to vote and get picked to play for Israel.

and who decided who lives in Israel "proper" and who lives in the land run by the palestinian authority? Israel! They kicked people out of their homes and denied them any status. If all the Palestinians who were kicked out byIsrael were giventheir lawful right to return, there would be no Israel. If that ain't apartheid, I dunno what is.

[lopez]

Yes, but surely the ban of SA was also a way of the international community to show a solid front on its disapproval of the apartheid system (or am I being to idealistic here?)...

You are!

I suppose as a vegetarian...

Huhh?? I'm almost certain you were tucking into some Fois Grois in Troyes. I gave meat up myself for a year (92 to 93) but the lure of bacon got the better of me. I do still give it up for lent, though.

and who decided who lives in Israel "proper" and who lives in the land run by the palestinian authority? Israel! They kicked people out of their homes and denied them any status. If all the Palestinians who were kicked out by Israel were giventheir lawful right to return, there would be no Israel. If that ain't apartheid, I dunno what is.

No black person was given the right to vote in Apartheid SA. A classification known as 'coloured' were able to elect a select ammount of representatives to the Parliament. Calling Israel an 'apartheid state' is little short of an insult to the intelligence.

Again Eanna, you're being selective. Approx. the same ammount of Jews were forced out - in the same way as those in Israel, through fear - of Arab countries as Arabs were forced out of 'Israel proper.' Israel took them in. The Arabs let them carry on throwing stones at Israeli troops in sh*thole camps, while no doubt the discarded properties of Jews were distributed amongst the needy of Cairo, Damascus and Rabat.

I've said it before, but the taking part of someone's country is theft. I wrote a letter to a London rag when a Jew wrote in complaining about Arafat being born outside of Palestine/Israel. I pointed out that both David Ben Gurion and Golda Meir were both born in Europe. The letter was never printed. However, the 'realpolitik' is that Israel is here to stay. 6 million Jews were murdered in that civilised continent of ours and someone had to pay the price in a country for the Jews. Unfortunately, it was the Arabs, not the Germans. Rightly or wrongly population exchanges have been a part of the 20C. Turkey/Greece, Germany/Poland & Czech Republic, Poland/Belarus & Ukraine, North-South Cyprus. A similar exchange in Ireland or with Britain may have saved 3.5K lives.

It's time that the Arabs realised that a similar population exchange has already happened and do something for their own people in the same way that the Israelis have done for theirs. Spend some of that oil money on resettlement rather than on $100M His and Hers yachts for themselves, make peace with Israel, and work towards an independent Palestinian state. Anyway, what do you suggest should be done to the Jews currently living in the ZOP?

[1 9 2 8]

if you go to israel, you spend money in israel and you support the economy of a genocidal regime, and I repeat, anyone knowingly giving even a cent to the israeli economy is supporting murder and genocide.

That's basically what I was saying

[Éanna]

No black person was given the right to vote in Apartheid SA. A classification known as 'coloured' were able to elect a select ammount of representatives to the Parliament. Calling Israel an 'apartheid state' is little short of an insult to the intelligence.

I know exactly what happened in SA. I've studied it in quite a bit of detail (have you read Mandela's autobiography? Great read). I can see several very good reasons why israel is an apartheid-like state. its not exactly the same, but its a similar type of situation.

Again Eanna, you're being selective. Approx. the same ammount of Jews were forced out - in the same way as those in Israel, through fear - of Arab countries as Arabs were forced out of 'Israel proper.' Israel took them in.

Thats undeniable, and must of course be condemned.

I've said it before, but the taking part of someone's country is theft. I wrote a letter to a London rag when a Jew wrote in complaining about Arafat being born outside of Palestine/Israel. I pointed out that both David Ben Gurion and Golda Meir were both born in Europe.

fair play to you,at least you can see through the lies and spin of Zionism and its allies.

Spend some of that oil money on resettlement rather than on $100M His and Hers yachts for themselves, make peace with Israel, and work towards an independent Palestinian state.

admirable hopes. can't see it working though. but you're right the oil money is going to a select few.

Anyway, what do you suggest should be done to the Jews currently living in the ZOP?

this came up in the thread on bush and as I said there its a very hard call. I certainly don't accept any solution that forces more people to leave their homes. they live there now and are entitled to stay.

[Cowboy]

I thought this was supposed to be a football forum ?

[lopez]

Admiral hopes I concede, but then 'you may call me a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.'

Never read much on South Africa: only read the book to Cry Freedom while I did an analytical essay on John Vorster's Bloemfontein speech in which SA would not accept any touring sports team selected by people 'with certain political aims,' essentially kicking off the sporting boycott. I have been tempted to buy 'Long Walk to Freedom.' Another difference between the SA and the ZOP was the lack of a formidable opposition in the white minority of the former, compared to Jews in Israel, which either shows that SA was far more tyrannical or SA whites were more indifferent. There is a huge anti-zionist movement among Jews (collectively known in Zionist spin as 'self-hating Jews') stretching from leftist peaceniks (a friend of the Londoner peacenik murdered in Israel last year by a soldier, who was on TV condemning the shooting, had a clearly Jewish name) to the Hasidic Jews who are still awaiting the first coming. We should not judge all Israeli Jews - many of whom whose families have been in Palestine as long as any Arab - just because of Zionists.

I remember reading a book called Dispossesed about Palestine and another about Lebanon twenty years ago and feeling very angry about the treatment of Palestinians in both their own country and Lebanon. I can understand anyone wanting to protest against or boycott this country.

[Pat O' Banton]

Huhh?? I'm almost certain you were tucking into some Fois Grois in Troyes.

I could have been as I don't have a clue what this is, am I being uncultured

[lopez]

I could have been as I don't have a clue what this is, am I being uncultured

It's goose liver pate, apparently derived from geese that are force fed nothing but fat to give it that special flavour. The bloke in 'Size Me Up' was told by doctors that after a month of nothing but McMurders his liver began to resemble Fois Gras. Anyway, this inhumane treatment of Geese, along with the French penchant for shooting anything that flies and scarve sellers conning customers is enough for me to boycott any of future meeting that Ireland may have in this thug state. Looking forward to some Puffin pie in the Faroes, are you?

[Cowboy]

Dont forget the pilot whale steak

It's goose liver pate, apparently derived from geese that are force fed nothing but fat to give it that special flavour. The bloke in 'Size Me Up' was told by doctors that after a month of nothing but McMurders his liver began to resemble Fois Gras. Anyway, this inhumane treatment of Geese, along with the French penchant for shooting anything that flies and scarve sellers conning customers is enough for me to boycott any of future meeting that Ireland may have in this thug state. Looking forward to some Puffin pie in the Faroes, are you?

[Pat O' Banton]

It's goose liver pate, apparently derived from geese that are force fed nothing but fat to give it that special flavour. The bloke in 'Size Me Up' was told by doctors that after a month of nothing but McMurders his liver began to resemble Fois Gras. Anyway, this inhumane treatment of Geese, along with the French penchant for shooting anything that flies and scarve sellers conning customers is enough for me to boycott any of future meeting that Ireland may have in this thug state. Looking forward to some Puffin pie in the Faroes, are you?

I think I'll be surviving on a healthy diet of Pot Noodle and canned lager, not a great deal different to my norf landan diet.
As for France, I can take their unwarrented nuclear tests in a tropical paradise, their nasty colonial history, sinking Greenpeace boats. But their f*cking scarf sellers no way! I'm with you they go on my Axis of evil.

When I work out how this will effect the French nation then they'll be worried

[Cowboy]

Yes,but Politics & sport will Always be intertwined alas........that's the real world

true but is it necessary to discuss pure politics here

[lopez]

...As for France, I can take their unwarrented nuclear tests in a tropical paradise, their nasty colonial history, sinking Greenpeace boats...

Funnily enough France used to be heavily on my 'banned' list for years until their stance against Dubya forced me into a sudden rethink. As someone pointed out to me at work, it took a lot to make the French look good but by f*ck, Dubya's managed to pull it off.

true but is it necessary to discuss pure politics here

The fact that we are talking about Ireland playing some dubious countries in football, hardly detaches itself from the sport. Even the innocent Faroes will manage to p*ss someone off.

Mind you, wonder what the Israelis think of Ireland: Arthur Griffith's anti-semitism, the Limerick pogrom, the miserly intake of Jewish (as opposed to Gentile) refugees during and after the war aswell as other things like child abuse in government institutions and spawning on the World Westlife.

[green goblin]

Mind you, wonder what the Israelis think of Ireland: Arthur Griffith's anti-semitism, the Limerick pogrom, the miserly intake of Jewish (as opposed to Gentile) refugees during and after the war aswell as other things like child abuse in government institutions and spawning on the World Westlife.

The swastika fluttered merrily in the breeze outside the German embassy in Dublin during the (cough) 'Emergency', and didn't DeValera pop round there and offer his condolences when Hitler popped his clogs?
I've often wondered about these things.

[Pat O' Banton]

Mind you, wonder what the Israelis think of Ireland: Arthur Griffith's anti-semitism, the Limerick pogrom, the miserly intake of Jewish (as opposed to Gentile) refugees during and after the war aswell as other things like child abuse in government institutions and spawning on the World Westlife.

Says a man who held Sylv and me hostage and forceably played Take That

[lopez]

The swastika fluttered merrily in the breeze outside the German embassy in Dublin during the (cough) 'Emergency', and didn't DeValera pop round there and offer his condolences when Hitler popped his clogs?
I've often wondered about these things.

To be fair to Dev, he was sticking rigidly to the neutral game. Well he wasn't actually: He sent home ejected British and American pilots (never done that to Germans who had to endure upto five years of p*ssing rain in Kildare) and showed a hell of a lot more enthusiasm (perhaps not the right word, but you get my drift) in honouring FDR who died days after/before our beloved Fuhrer.

Anyone see that picture (think it was in some Irish World Cup guide) of the Irish team giving the salute at a game with Germany in the 30s. Some of the lads looked to be taking the p*ss with their hash attempts at a 'Heil Hitler' while I thought one player was patting his invisible pet pony.

Says a man who held Sylv and me hostage and forceably played Take That

Erm... ...yes...that's...erm...what you get on Heart FM late on a Sunday night. Or maybe it was Conchita's tape. I'm surprised you remember the state you were in.

[sylvo]

[QUOTE=lopez] (never done that to Germans who had to endure upto five years of p*ssing rain in Kildare)

I bet those Germans thought it was like staying at club tropicarna.

[Bondvillain]

Well he wasn't actually: He sent home ejected British and American pilots (never done that to Germans who had to endure upto five years of p*ssing rain in Kildare).

I bet those Germans thought it was like staying at club tropicana.

Maybe not Club Tropicana, but it was certainly a better option than being bundled off to The Russian front on their triumphant return to the fatherland...

The Yanks, the British, the Poles & Czechs et al, all chose to do a legger when offered the option of a closed eye & an open gate, but the Germans, quite sensibly when one considers the sh*tty conditions they would have to endure should they report for duty, simply replied with an Honourable 'Nein Danke' if a similar offer arose, choosing to while away the hours in the comparativley balmy surrounds of The Curragh camp, (with the occasional day trip to Dublin provided by C.I.E. to get them away from the sheep...) over Siberia.

B.Villain,
(B.A. Hons), Professor of Sheep, Sh*te & Soldiers,
University of The Curragh.