2014 World Cup

Well they were two up by the time Chile had the player sent off, possibly made Spain complacent if anything and, fair enough, it got nervy in the second half. My point remains that it's Spain's regression as opposed to Holland or Chile's progression that have closed the gap.

I think both teams have gotten better too.

And Drogba is on the bench, Crosby.

And if you were to apportion percentages of improvement in Holland and Chile compared to Spain's percentage in decline, what would you attribute to each? I'm not convinced Holland have improved at all, possibly even gone backwards. I'd give Chile maybe a 20% improvement with some of their key players hitting their prime but the main factor is Spain's regression which must be close to 70%. A pretty crude barometer I accept

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I wouldn't agree that Spain easily accounted for Chile four years ago. Chile played over half the game with ten men and still won the second half 1-0, after they had a man sent off for a terrible Torres dive. I think they'll have taken extra pleasure in their victory for that reason.

It was a thrilling game with plenty of bite and just goes to show that the boring part of tikka taka were the parked busses.

I wouldn't get into percentages but I think Chile are significantly better this time. I could see them as semi-finalists or more this time around whereas last time I don't think they ever really thought they could get past Brazil, and that's with Arturo Vidal only half-fit. The Netherlands is a totally different team to four years ago and, in my opinion, the likes of Daley Blind and Martins Indi are much better suited to playing a positive passing game than the likes of Heitinga or Ooijer.

Netherlands have become a little less germanic since the last WC. Their so called weak link, the young defenders from their local league, have done well.

Originally Posted by DeLorean

I couldn't help feeling a bit deflated by Spain's exit. They are/were the only team in the competition that could genuinely be considered 'great'. It would have been okay if they had met two massively improved sides that genuinely had 'figured them out', but I just don't think this is the case. Holland pretty much approached the game in the same manner as 2010. Spain easily accounted for a very similar Chile side four years ago. Nothing lasts forever and all the success and mileage had to catch up with them eventually, I just think it's a bit depressing that they're not passing the baton to another potentially great side, but merely sides that can now compete with them due to their own regression.

I was positively beaming with their exit. Their victory in the last WC left a sour taste in my mouth. It was akin to Greece in 2004 with some classy players and some extra passes. Whilst I found the approach fascinating, I was never under the impression that I was watching something beautiful or great.

This Chile side are far from the one in 2010 and even the 2010 vintage weren't some two bit operation. In the lead up to this WC Chile's extra bit of oomph was gonna trouble the Spanish. And so it passed.

Spain trundled and ruthlessly passed their way to the final. Remember their performance against Paraguay? Spain were blessed in that game. For a great side it was odd that any "great" performances were kept for the Euros. Against teams I suppose they knew and players they were used to.

The Dutch of 2010 used tactics that would disrupt the Spanish rhythm as we all know that if you allowed that side, like Barca, to dictate play you end up with a an absolute walloping to go home with.

I won't lament their demise, they bored me into submission.

I'm enjoying watching loads of football every day but I can't honestly claim to be enjoying the tournament itself as much as some on here. Plenty of goals but very few excellent games or team performances. I would exclude Germany from this and there has been the odd game here and there really worth watching.

I'd agree with this. I would say my issues stem from one of two things being that I have to watch CBC (you have no idea how soccer coverage can get until you experience this) if I don't stay in to watch it online on RTÉ or BBC/ITV and the fact that with the timings specific to cater for the European audience I get caught out with work. Thankfully I'm off today.

I think it speaks volumes when the Dutch are (rightly) one of the favourites with the likes of Vlaar and De Guzman in their starting line up. It's a far cry from the days of Koeman and Rijkaard, not to mention their even heavier hitters!

Shows what a decent coach and some organisation will do, Imagine, Ron Vlaar could have a WC medal... Cruyff won't.

I thoroughly enjoyed their dismantling of Spain (obviously) but they were odd against Australia. It was like they could score at will if they wanted to but they barely went for it. It was like they had considered the hard work had been done.

I'll be supporting Italy all the way now, there is something really classy about them even though they look weaker than their teams of the past.

But it's Italy. Get them outta the group and they become a different beast. As 2006 (the greatest ever WC) showed that when they get on a roll and they have belief in the side there is nothing to stop them.

At the outset of tournaments I generally want to see Germany, Netherlands, Italy and Argentina do well or win.

So I don't think I'll be too disappointed for once.

I think as defenders they probably are weaker than the last lot but they are part of an overall playing style whereas in South Africa they basically had six limited defenders and relied on keeping a clean sheet and for the flair players to do something. Similar to this Brazil side really.

Dunphy at it again. Colombia's Zapata plays for Zaragoza in Spain apparently.

Van Gaal is doing alright with what he has at his disposal, like always he tends to blow his own trumpet about his input but ultimately this team are not a vehicle for his ego, that weight is just too much for most teams to drag along.

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I think as defenders they probably are weaker than the last lot but they are part of an overall playing style whereas in South Africa they basically had six limited defenders and relied on keeping a clean sheet and for the flair players to do something. Similar to this Brazil side really.

Dunphy at it again. Colombia's Zapata plays for Zaragoza in Spain apparently.

Anything he can do Alan Hansen can do too. Just generic ramblings about "keeping it tight". And as for Lineker, Colombia are very like "Chile"... In what way Gary? They're name begins with "c"? They're in South America? We'll never know.

Dunphy is painful to watch here! Rabbit in the headlights!

Maybe he means Colombians eat Chili?

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Spain trundled and ruthlessly passed their way to the final. Remember their performance against Paraguay? Spain were blessed in that game. For a great side it was odd that any "great" performances were kept for the Euros. Against teams I suppose they knew and players they were used to.

Not sure what your point is here. They only had three games against non-European opposition, beating Honduras comfortably and I felt they managed that high pressure game against Chile pretty well. Yeah, they rode their luck against Paraguay, very few teams win anything without one of those games. They still stuck to their philosophy and eventually got their reward. The complete domination of an excellent German team in the semi final is somehow diluted because they're European?

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Shows what a decent coach and some organisation will do, Imagine, Ron Vlaar could have a WC medal... Cruyff won't.

Well yeah, that was my point. It's not really taking a whole pile to succeed because the standard isn't great. A bit like that Greece side you were repulsed by doing well with similar organisational capabilities, although I'm not convinced the Dutch are even that organised, Australia should have scored a couple more at least.

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

At the outset of tournaments I generally want to see Germany, Netherlands, Italy and Argentina do well or win.

So I don't think I'll be too disappointed for once.

Fair enough but you kind of remind me of a Fianna Fail supporter that will stick with them regardless. I loved the Dutch side that had Van Basten & Co but I'm not going to like the current crop on the back of what once was. Same with Brazil. I feel that it would be bad for Brazilian football, and by extension football everywhere, if they are successful with their current brand. If the likes of themselves and the Dutch don't fly the flag for inventive, glamorous football then things are hitting a serious downer I feel.

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

But it's Italy. Get them outta the group and they become a different beast. As 2006 (the greatest ever WC) showed that when they get on a roll and they have belief in the side there is nothing to stop them.

2006 best WC ever? I think too many games were decided on the penalty shoot outs (the Final included) to be regarded as the best ever ? I am hard pressed to recall any classic game except perhaps France vs Spain.

I usually support Germany is these tournaments because they're usually the team hated by everyone else, especially our friends across the water. Glad to see you have time for them. Usually don't like Italy because as a WC Watcher of a certain vintage, their play used to be based on defence with scoring goals a secondary thought.

The semi between Germany and Italy was by a mile the best of that tournament, and in my opinion one of the best ever.

My prediction for the England Uruguay game later is that England will win, Rooney will score and make everyone think he is "World Class" again for the 5 minutes until the next game, and that Suarez will do something controversial that he will use to force a move to Spain saying that the English media are forcing him out.

Originally Posted by geysir

It was a thrilling game with plenty of bite and just goes to show that the boring part of tikka taka were the parked busses.

Not always. Some parked buses can be entertaining. Tikki Takka was brutal to watch in all of it's guises I felt. I find more joy out of defensive discipline coupled with quick countering. That's just me however.

Originally Posted by DeLorean

Not sure what your point is here. They only had three games against non-European opposition, beating Honduras comfortably and I felt they managed that high pressure game against Chile pretty well. Yeah, they rode their luck against Paraguay, very few teams win anything without one of those games. They still stuck to their philosophy and eventually got their reward. The complete domination of an excellent German team in the semi final is somehow diluted because they're European?

I see what you're getting at. But say if Paraguay had gotten through that game and faced Germany in the semi- and then the Germans won the final against the Dutch we would be talking about this "great" German team.
History is written by the winners of course, but I feel that that's why Spain get oversold as "great".

They won 3 tournaments on the trot, they were very impressive in Euro2012 and I think that was their greatest moment. But that WC was not as glorious or as wonderful a victory I think that some people remember it to be.

It really is a six-of-one conversation. I dislike their style of play. You liked it. So of course our opinions will be poles apart. But there's merit in all arguments.

I just feel that a truly great side when they come up against a team who nullify their plan-A should have a plan-B and -C etc.

Spain had that one miserable style and that was it.

Well yeah, that was my point. It's not really taking a whole pile to succeed because the standard isn't great. A bit like that Greece side you were repulsed by doing well with similar organisational capabilities, although I'm not convinced the Dutch are even that organised, Australia should have scored a couple more at least.

Most of my repulsion for the Greek side was that it was Greece. Nothing to really do with their "puke" football. There was merit in their approach.

As came up in the WC final 2010 and that infamous Chelsea-Barca Semi-; you play to your strengths. And that's what Greece did. If they got knocked out in the second round we wouldn't even blink about that side.

Fair enough but you kind of remind me of a Fianna Fail supporter that will stick with them regardless. I loved the Dutch side that had Van Basten & Co but I'm not going to like the current crop on the back of what once was. Same with Brazil. I feel that it would be bad for Brazilian football, and by extension football everywhere, if they are successful with their current brand. If the likes of themselves and the Dutch don't fly the flag for inventive, glamorous football then things are hitting a serious downer I feel.

Well... hmmmm... No.

I loved those Dutch sides too. And the Euro 2000 vintage was glorious too and the one I adored. But the Dutch were impressive in qualifying and to annihilate the "great" Spaniards in the fashion they did was glorious. That was beautiful football. That that side has De Jong in it as an enforcer is not a bad thing. I like that teams don't have 11 Iniestas or 11 Souness'. It takes all sorts. And De Jong was an integral cog in that destruction last Friday.

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

2006 best WC ever? I think too many games were decided on the penalty shoot outs (the Final included) to be regarded as the best ever ? I am hard pressed to recall any classic game except perhaps France vs Spain.

From start to finish that WC kept be fixated. Game after game of twists and turns and ups and downs.

In the groups we had: ARG-NED, ARG-SRB, POR-MEX, ITA-GHA, ITA-USA, GHA-USA, CRO-BRA
Knock-out: ARG-MEX, ITA-AUS, POR-NED, SPA-FRA, BRA-FRA, ENG-POR, ARG-GER, GER-ITA, ITA-FRA...

As Delorean says that semi was one of the greatest world cup games. But the QF between ARG and GER was cracking too. ITA-AUS was unbelievable in how it panned out. BRA-FRa was a classic in the old-school WC mode and then there's the ARG-SRB demolition... how can you forget this...

I usually support Germany is these tournaments because they're usually the team hated by everyone else, especially our friends across the water. Glad to see you have time for them. Usually don't like Italy because as a WC Watcher of a certain vintage, their play used to be based on defence with scoring goals a secondary thought.

I love Germany. Always have. This current German side are devastating.
In saying that I do have a love for Italy too. Which has weathered some of the miserable and dour performances over the years.

Originally Posted by DeLorean

The semi between Germany and Italy was by a mile the best of that tournament, and in my opinion one of the best ever.

True dat. True dat.



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To get back to today. I was already enjoying this game but my god this is some second half. Colombia are a joy to watch.

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

My prediction for the England Uruguay game later is that England will win, Rooney will score and make everyone think he is "World Class" again for the 5 minutes until the next game, and that Suarez will do something controversial that he will use to force a move to Spain saying that the English media are forcing him out.

If Suarez does something controversial that contributes to England losing, he'll be stripped of all accolades won by him, before his departure.

I tipped Colombia to make a shock exit from their group, now with a few minutes to go it looks to be a shocking tip.

Colombia are one of my favorite teams to watch in this WC. James Rodriguez is an absolutely fantastic player

They're a super watch. Really want them to go on from here.

I agree with Razor. England wake up and win one today.