League of Ireland in Europe 2014

[Dodge]

It's not exactly prize money until all costs are covered
I had thought Europa league money was about Eur80k per tie.
What would it cost to charter a commercial jet for a 10500km round trip, on short notice in high season?
(including the Kazakh danger surcharge)

Last year it was €130,000 for that round

http://www.uefa.org/about-uefa/news/newsid=1979895.html

Oriel park would be a sell out too, further off-setting the (extremely high) costs. They wouldn't lose money

[pateen]

So if Pat's go through it will be an all irish tie

Looks like it Ger if Pats play Celtic

[mcgonigle]

Last year it was €130,000 for that round

http://www.uefa.org/about-uefa/news/newsid=1979895.html

Oriel park would be a sell out too, further off-setting the (extremely high) costs. They wouldn't lose money

Wouldn't be held in Oriel though as it is only sanctioned for 2 rounds which would mean added cost of renting Tallaght and that wouldn't sell out for either of those teams. Anyway we won't be going through.

[pineapple stu]

Last year it was €130,000 for that round

http://www.uefa.org/about-uefa/news/newsid=1979895.html

Oriel park would be a sell out too, further off-setting the (extremely high) costs. They wouldn't lose money

E140k, no?

Second qualifying round participants will gain €130,000 even if they go through to the group stage, and each club playing in the third qualifying round will receive €140,000 regardless of results

[geysir]

Last year it was €130,000 for that round

http://www.uefa.org/about-uefa/news/newsid=1979895.html

Oriel park would be a sell out too, further off-setting the (extremely high) costs. They wouldn't lose money

I see that a few seasons ago (2011/12) the europa qual round participation payment was €90,000,
€130,000 isn't bad, almost a 50% rise.

[luiz]

Since everybody exemplifies the hardship of travelling in european competitions with kazakh clubs, on what basis were they admitted to UEFA? They are not in Europe, are not in the middle of a conflict that prevents them from playing against their neighbours like Israel is, they are not much better than their continental opponents making their continent's competitions useless like it happened with Australia. I have absolutely no clue of what happened back then when UEFA allowed them in since european teams gain absolutely nothing from playing against kazakh sides. If they were allowed in, I will suggest that the brazilian federation should apply to join UEFA, our clubs would benefit from competing in UCL and EL and definitely the Brazilian national team would be a great addition to the Euros (Germany would be specially rejoicing on this). I bet we are closer to most european countries than Kazakhstan is.

[Sheridan]

Since everybody exemplifies the hardship of travelling in european competitions with kazakh clubs, on what basis were they admitted to UEFA? They are not in Europe, are not in the middle of a conflict that prevents them from playing against their neighbours like Israel is, they are not much better than their continental opponents making their continent's competitions useless like it happened with Australia. I have absolutely no clue of what happened back then when UEFA allowed them in since european teams gain absolutely nothing from playing against kazakh sides. If they were allowed in, I will suggest that the brazilian federation should apply to join UEFA, our clubs would benefit from competing in UCL and EL and definitely the Brazilian national team would be a great addition to the Euros (Germany would be specially rejoicing on this). I bet we are closer to most european countries than Kazakhstan is.

Originally the plan was for Europe and Asia to swap Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan, for cultural as much as political reasons. Then UEFA decided to admit Kazakhstan and retain Azerbaijan anyway, since that gave Europe another vote at FIFA Congress.

[Nesta99]

May have something to do with the league Kazakh clubs were playing in or the national association they were members of prior to the break up of the USSR, Soviet Eurasian sides competed in UEFA legitimately then and i presume were simply allowed contunue to do so as an independent league? My guess without looking in to it.


*or as Sheridan says

[geysir]

For clubs who are located in a region where planes are available for charter and who have a large enough fan base, that 150 or so will fill out the seats to take the burden of the costs, then it's not so bad I suppose with a bit of preplanning. Still it's a lot to organise inside a few days.
Last season an (almost) amateur Icelandic club was paired with a Kazakh team in the 3rd round, it was a costly and lengthy adventure.
This season, FH travelled to Belarusia, commercial flight to Copenhagen, connecting flight to Warsaw and bussed the rest of the way across the border. You'd want to be returning home with something to smile about. I suppose the last thing they would want to hear about is someone questioning their mental and physical fortitude in the last 5 minutes when playing full time pro teams from a league a few steps up the quality ladder.

[Quayman]

Duno how we didn't score last night. Split sat back as soon as they scored and we really should have punished them on more than one occasion. Guna be very hard to get through now going to a stadium were the fans will create a big hostile atmosphere for our lot.

[Nesta99]

Duno how we didn't score last night. Split sat back as soon as they scored and we really should have punished them on more than one occasion. Guna be very hard to get through now going to a stadium were the fans will create a big hostile atmosphere for our lot.

Well they have nothing to lose whereas Hadjuk could be a bit cagey 1st competative home match. Any sort of counter attacking with menace could rattle them a piece. I get the impression that they are quite an expectant crowd who'd get on players backs quick enough. They're a young side too. SK has the experience of going to PSG. I dont think the big noisey crowd will bother us as much as the heat and the way they get on to the breaking ball so quickly.

[sligoman]

Love your man in the background going Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, ...... Yes,
He cant believe it!!!

That was one of the commentators for Ocean FM.

[redarmyfaction]

That was one of the commentators for Ocean FM.

The Ocean FM boys felt threatened the Norwie media were so cross, they are going mental on their forum calling us a Publagtem or pub team which made me cross until I thought about it. Say a Norwegian pub team has between players, subs, manager, and hangers on about twenty men, over here the publican would expect each player to spend a few quid each week so on the conservative side, each man has 15 pints x 18€ = 270, five bags of local tayto x 4.00€ = €20, a burger and chips or a pizza twice a week 2 x 38€ = 76, so that is if you are reasonable about €350 a week per man by 20 is seven grand add in insurance and bus hire and kit and washing it and remember the vast distances in Norway a Publag would have a budget of about 10k a week which is not far off or in excess of many LOI clubs.

[paul_oshea]

Regardless of how Sligo turns out, I think there'll be a win and a draw for Irish sides by the end of the night.

there was a win.

[Longfordian]

The Ocean FM boys felt threatened the Norwie media were so cross, they are going mental on their forum calling us a Publagtem or pub team which made me cross until I thought about it. Say a Norwegian pub team has between players, subs, manager, and hangers on about twenty men, over here the publican would expect each player to spend a few quid each week so on the conservative side, each man has 15 pints x 18€ = 270, five bags of local tayto x 4.00€ = €20, a burger and chips or a pizza twice a week 2 x 38€ = 76, so that is if you are reasonable about €350 a week per man by 20 is seven grand add in insurance and bus hire and kit and washing it and remember the vast distances in Norway a Publag would have a budget of about 10k a week which is not far off or in excess of many LOI clubs.

You've put way too much thought into that.

[redarmyfaction]

Bah, Hoban was in acres of space for that effort that hit the post. The defending was very casual, but you have to take those chances when they're gifted to you.

Dundalk seemed to give Hadjuk an enormous levity in front of their back four, like the midfield didn't drop back at all, inexperience, only Pats it seems can do it consistently and play to their normal level in Europe, cooly conceived and taken goal. Hard to judge Dundalk from the Hadjuk stream, gang of minks were they?

[Dodge]

Originally the plan was for Europe and Asia to swap Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan, for cultural as much as political reasons. Then UEFA decided to admit Kazakhstan and retain Azerbaijan anyway, since that gave Europe another vote at FIFA Congress.

Originally Kazakhstan played in the Asian football Confederation. It chose to move to UEFA in 2002

In all other Olympic sports, Kazakhstan remains part of Asia and goes through their qualification routes.

I'd guess the money earned from UEFA is a lot more than AFC. Shouldn't be allowed though IMO

[DannyInvincible]

The Ocean FM boys felt threatened the Norwie media were so cross, they are going mental on their forum calling us a Publagtem or pub team which made me cross until I thought about it.

That's a bit rich. Surely Sligo would be no more of a "Publagtem" than some of the opposition Rosenborg regularly face in the humble Tippeligaen.

[DannyInvincible]

Since everybody exemplifies the hardship of travelling in european competitions with kazakh clubs, on what basis were they admitted to UEFA? They are not in Europe, are not in the middle of a conflict that prevents them from playing against their neighbours like Israel is, they are not much better than their continental opponents making their continent's competitions useless like it happened with Australia. I have absolutely no clue of what happened back then when UEFA allowed them in since european teams gain absolutely nothing from playing against kazakh sides. If they were allowed in, I will suggest that the brazilian federation should apply to join UEFA, our clubs would benefit from competing in UCL and EL and definitely the Brazilian national team would be a great addition to the Euros (Germany would be specially rejoicing on this). I bet we are closer to most european countries than Kazakhstan is.

It's an interesting one alright, so I've set myself a topic for research... You say Kazakhstan is not in Europe, but would you say it's indisputably Asian? Why the Kazakh association opted to join the Asian confederation in 1992 is surely as valid a question as asking why they decided to join UEFA in 2002. Maybe it was a means of asserting their independence or separateness from the USSR and Russian influence? Russia, of course, succeeded the USSR and remained a UEFA member. Or did UEFA perhaps deny Kazakhstan access back then? I'm not sure...

And does "everyone" actually make an issue of Kazakhstan's supposed remoteness? Do other UEFA members and clubs on continental Europe complain about it? I'm not necessarily saying they don't; it's just that you presume they do with such seeming certainty. Surely Kazakhstan's admission in 2002 would have required broad support across the board of UEFA members at the time, so the potential travel difficulties posed by their then-prospective membership can hardly have been an over-riding issue for "everyone" at the time.

Article 5 of UEFA's regulations states that membership "is open to national football associations situated in the continent of Europe", but it does not identify how UEFA define the continent's boundaries. Who does define the continent's boundaries? The same article also outlines that "in exceptional circumstances, a national football association that is situated in another continent may be admitted to membership, provided that it is not a member of the Confederation of that continent, or of any other Confederation, and that FIFA approves its membership of UEFA". Likewise, UEFA once again fail to define here what amounts to an exceptional circumstance.

The hardship of travelling to Kazakhstan is of course amplified from an Irish perspective as we find ourselves at the very western tip of the European continent whilst Kazakhstan is to the continent's very far east. It perhaps seems unfamiliar and distant to western Europeans because we have very little day-to-day connection or interaction with it, but doesn't Kazakhstan associate culturally with (at the very least, eastern) Europe, especially Russia? The Soviet Union, of which Kazakhstan was part, was an integral member of UEFA. Surely, Kazakhstan would have as much of a case for UEFA membership as the likes of Russia, Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia? Furthermore, drawing the likes of Tom Tomsk, Luch-Energiya Vladivostok or Sakhalin Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk from Russia - if they were ever to qualify for European competition - would see western European clubs having to travel much further east than they'd ever have to were they to draw a Kazakh club.

Turkey, Cyprus and Israel are similarly geographically-Asian, but their participation in UEFA is broadly accepted. These countries share a cultural-historical affinity with Europe; the state of Israel is predominantly European-derived and so wholeheartedly aligns itself with Europe and the West rather than with its immediate Arab neighbours. Kazakhstan doesn't identify predominantly with, say, China to its east, or am I mistaken? It might not be a member of the Council of Europe, but, then, neither is Israel. I guess what I'm saying is that geo-political boundaries can be rather blurred; there are no hard and fast rules or criteria that will offer surefire guidance as to what constitutes a definitively European country or as to which characteristics, in spite of the existence of the aforementioned regulations, definitively entitle an association to UEFA membership.

Importantly, it must, however, be noted that Kazakhstan has never participated in the critical matter of a Eurovision Song Contest! (Its state television company K-1 is negotiating to join the European Broadcasting Union, mind.)

Anyway, I've done a bit of reading around it all and managed to unearth some informative material, mainly with the aid of this thread on Boards.ie. Here's some information from the UEFA website on Kazakhstan's accession to UEFA: http://www.uefa.com/memberassociatio...id=945252.html

In 1992 the Independent Football Association of the Republic of Kazakhstan (FARK) was created following the dissolution of the USSR. Two years later the association gained FIFA and AFC membership. In 2000, though, FARK was re-formed to become the Football Federation of Kazakhstan (KFF) whose greatest achievement would be admittance to UEFA. Given that part of Kazakhstan's territory is in Europe – the main argument for membership – the KFF left the AFC in 2001 and 12 months later was admitted to UEFA.

And the text of a Reuters report presumably from around 2001 or 2002 covering their then-intention to leave the AFC: http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17

Kazakhstan is to quit the Asian Football Confederation to try to become a member of UEFA, the country's soccer authorities said on Friday.

"Our experts and fans are deeply convinced that our soccer today needs to be part of UEFA, which in our opinion has the most developed and progressive system of soccer in the world," the Kazakhstan Soccer Federation (KSF) said in a statement.

"The absolute majority of fans and soccer experts favours resignation from the AFC and support membership of UEFA," the statement added. "The KSF leadership will spare no effort to achieve membership of UEFA."

A large chunk of Kazakh territory lies in Europe, and many refer to the country as being Eurasian rather than Central Asian.

According to this, they'd been trying to gain UEFA membership since 1996: http://www.espnfc.com/europe/news/20...azakhstan.html

'Football competition grew up in Kazakhstan in the European tradition,' said Football Union of Kazakhstan president Rakhat Aliyev in a statement.

'Kazakhstan has been seeking membership of UEFA since 1996. It should come as no surprise that we regard ourselves as part of European football. We are happy to return to UEFA.'

Aliyev added that, prior to the break-up of the old Soviet Union, Kazakhstan's teams competed with other European clubs within UEFA.

Gerhard Aigner, the chief executive of UEFA, has said that Kazakhstan could only apply to join UEFA if they were not already a member of another association.

Kazakhstan's application to join UEFA is likely to be approved.

UEFA president Lennart Johansson said last month: 'I am certainly in favour. It is a vast country with a very serious interest in football and we would welcome them.'

Kazakhstan could join UEFA at the Congress to be held by European soccer's governing body in Stockholm next April.

Here's the take of James Dart of the Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/football/...nowledge.sport

"How did it transpire that Kazakhstan falls under Uefa's jurisdiction while Uzbekistan, their neighbour to the south, play in the Asian department?" wonders Mikael Colville-Andersen.

This goes back to 2002, Mikael, when Kazakhstan became the 52nd member association of Uefa. Despite its location in the heart of Asia (bordering China, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Russia and, of course, Uzbekistan), the Kazakhs were keen to leave the Asian Football Confederation (AFC) behind. It could well have had something to do with their failure to qualify for the 2002 World Cup, when they had finished their qualifying group unbeaten, and with an identical record to Iraq, who eventually progressed. But, officially at least, their addition was seen as a return to the fold, having formerly been a part of the Uefa-affiliated USSR.

"They had resigned from the AFC and in that sense were homeless," explained Mike Lee, former Uefa communications director, at the time. "They believe that they're more naturally European, they want to be more European-turning in their outlook as a nation and as an economy. If a country has a historical and territorial base that is relevant it has a right to pursue that." Kazakhstan FA president Rakhat Aliyev added: "Practically speaking, it means more contacts with Europe and more investment projects. It will also lead to a better future for players and especially young people in the country. It will lead to a higher professional level."

For the time being, however, their switch to Europe hasn't proved so lucrative; in qualifying for the 2006 World Cup, Kazakhstan finished bottom of Group Two with a solitary point from 12 games.

Hope that provides some answers!

[gufcfan]

The way things are going with Irish football of late, the League of Ireland will soon be ranked better in Europe than the national team are.

LOI are 40th and Ireland are 35th.

Edit: Typo.