Football Pyramid

**Green** · 15/05/2014, 11:43 PM

Question lads,

Why do the Junior and Intermediate League across the country not feed in to the football pyramid and ultimately promotion to the sse Airtricity League?

Is it too costly for the club's or are the leagues's pretty happy the way thing's are?

**NeverFeltBetter** · 16/05/2014, 12:17 AM

Both?

**Charlie Darwin** · 16/05/2014, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Both?

That's the simple answer. The fact is the leagues have never been under the same structure and it seems to suit most people to keep it that way.

**NeverFeltBetter** · 16/05/2014, 1:10 AM

What is the benefit to those junior clubs thinking of trying to move up to the national level? The registration fee, doing up the ground, all the increased costs of being at that higher level in terms of club upkeep, wages, etc. Most of the clubs have a very small catchment area, so will face a battle to draw in the crowds to sustain such an endeavour and that's if they aren't competing with an established LOI club (how'd think Pike Rovers get on in Limerick for example? What kind of support could they get across the city?). The results don't go their way as they frequently don't for such clubs, the crowds will melt away.

So, best case scenario, they struggle around the First Division for as long as they can, SD Galway style. Worst, they go out of business completely. Why would they risk that when they can stay where they are, comfortable and not threatened weekly with extinction? Right now, the LOI is simply not attractive to new clubs.

**Charlie Darwin** · 16/05/2014, 1:40 AM

Well, even stripping away the costs, I don't think it's a particularly attractive position for junior clubs to be in. The big LSL, MSL etc. clubs are big fish in a small pond right now. It's no secret that clubs like Malahide United have budgets as big as some League of Ireland clubs. They're comfortable where they are and they don't want their position jeopardised. If they really wanted to enter the league, they'd push for it. As it stands, the only clubs who actively seek LOI membership are from areas where there isn't a great junior league structure.

**Nah Nah Nah Nah** · 16/05/2014, 7:47 AM

Over to you Legendz.....

**Macy** · 16/05/2014, 9:29 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

It's no secret that clubs like Malahide United have budgets as big as some League of Ireland clubs. They're comfortable where they are and they don't want their position jeopardised.

And they don't have the same regulation/ attention they may get in the LoI.

As with tackling the issues with underage football, the FAI structure is goosed, and those currently in control of the FAI ain't going to be the Turkeys that vote for Christmas by taking it on as that's their power base.

**Stuttgart88** · 16/05/2014, 11:05 AM

That's exactly it Macy. Sad but true. I'd love if someone could instigate an Oireachtas inquiry into our football governance. They were concerned enough with the GAA deal with Sky for the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications (whose remit includes sport, and not just in the sense that sport is a TV product) to immediately call the GAA in to justify its action.

The equivalent in the UK, the DCMS, held a year long inquiry into English football governance. It was very thorough and very critical, though Scudamore has resisted some of its recommendations.

It would be in the public interest on several fronts, not least because the state provides funding via the ISC. Instead all I ever hear from a politician is guff from Enda Kenny every few years about a 32 county football team and the FA playing Ireland every year for charity.

**NeverFeltBetter** · 16/05/2014, 11:30 AM

A political avenue is a dead end. The GAA has more voters attached to it.

**Sheridan** · 16/05/2014, 12:19 PM

The juniorballers, like the schoolboy regime, are too attached to their personal fiefdoms to have any interest in relinquishing their influence. If you thought LOI was run by shameless chancers, you should take a look at the scum of the earth who inhabit the lower echelons.

**legendz** · 17/05/2014, 7:12 PM

Originally Posted by Nah Nah Nah Nah

Over to you Legendz.....

lol, yeah sure big fish and small ponds etc. as those who are part of the LoI family keep saying.
A triangle will be more likely than a pyramid! No A championship club suffered financial difficulties. Should have been merged with the first division below an expanded premier and all that less stringent fudgy criteria etc...

**luiz** · 19/05/2014, 8:53 AM

I will take the chance and ask you lads who knew what the League of Ireland was before 2008 about Home Farm.

They have a stadium decent enough to play in the First Division. They've been around for decades so they probably used to have a fan base by then. What led them to withdraw from the league, and wouldn't they be the most suitable name among the LSL teams to come back?

**Mr A** · 19/05/2014, 8:56 AM

They split from the Home Farm Everton entity that would later become Dublin City as the costs of being semi pro were not adding up for them.

They probably could return to the LOI as an amateur set up, but I'm not sure they'd see any value in it.

**NeverFeltBetter** · 19/05/2014, 9:47 AM

That's just it. What is the incentive for these clubs? It's not financial so....prestige? Of being in the national league? Not very persuasive.

**peadar1987** · 19/05/2014, 9:56 AM

That's probably the greatest part of the problem. It's a big financial risk to enter the LOI, lots of travel expenses, the entry fee, possible ground improvements etc. Most amateur clubs are happy winning trophies and not spending much. Small ponds and all that.

If there ever is an integrated pyramid (and I'm not sure there will be), it will need to be significantly different to what we have now. Probably regionalised below the top flight to reduce travel expenses, reduced ground requirements and so on.

**Mr A** · 19/05/2014, 9:59 AM

Travel expenses are a much over hyped element of costs for clubs. We probably travel more than the vast majority of clubs in the league, are not running a large budget and they're still not a massive chunk of our outgoings.

**Macy** · 19/05/2014, 10:52 AM

Ground improvements is also over hyped - standards for the 1st are pretty bloody low (whatever about the standards they are supposed to be).

**NeverFeltBetter** · 19/05/2014, 11:56 AM

How many people do the best Junior clubs get at games on average? Some of the attendances in the First are very shocking, so if they had a workable stadium and could incur the travel expenses, a lot would then come down to how many fans they could get to games on a regular basis.

**Dodge** · 19/05/2014, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by luiz

I will take the chance and ask you lads who knew what the League of Ireland was before 2008 about Home Farm.

They have a stadium decent enough to play in the First Division. They've been around for decades so they probably used to have a fan base by then. What led them to withdraw from the league, and wouldn't they be the most suitable name among the LSL teams to come back?

They never really had a fanbase to be fair. Over the years the LOI team split from the LSL/schoolboy set up and the gap just kept getting wider and wider. By the mid 90s they were almost completely seperate clubs.

They changed to Home Farm Everton in 1995/96, and onto Home Farm Fingal in 1999/2000. After 2000/01 the committee had enough and jacked it in. Ronan Seery spotted the opportunity and created Dublin City as a completely separate club but playing out of Whitehall. Some of the players were the same but no one incolved in Home Farm was involved with Dublin City.

Home Farm had always kept their LSL set up so there were no changes there. As Dublin City and Sporting Fingal have shown, there's no room for any more Dublin teams so I can't see them being bothered by the LOI again

**Sheridan** · 19/05/2014, 5:25 PM

Home Farm were virulently opposed to any involvement in the league post the Home Farm Fingal split (the use of the name was just a means of legitimising HFF's presence in the league). They even turned down funding from the FAI for a total modernisation of Whitehall and its guaranteed use as Ireland's youth international venue, because it was tied into formalising a link with Dublin City. Their business model is all about hoovering up talented teenagers from the Dublin nursery clubs and trying to sell them abroad.

Re: Junior attendances. No non-senior club in Ireland attracts regular three-figure crowds.