The Ref

[Fair_play_boy]

Scouting around the forums since getting back to my PC a few hours ago, I see almost no mention of the ref last night. In my opinion we were robbed. I am writing to the club to look for action along the lines of this post.

[A face]

I totally agree with ya ... but maybe a good way to deal with this is the recurit ex players from outside the pale. That should take care of the bias. It would definitely have Dub fans screaming that the shoe is on the other foot anyway and might go some way to having the league look at the problem.

And it is a problem, anyone that says it isn't is mad or is saying for some other reason. I have met some many neutral/non eL fans/foreigners that have said it is appualling, .... i never have an answer either, you dont have much come back with some of the glaring 'mistakes' some of the refs make. And some of the stories i have heard back it all up aswell.

The league needs to address this situation.

And (not trying to picking out Shels on this one) last nights example where players were in the refs ear all night .... red cards, sorts it right out. They shouldn't have to deal with that level of shíte. I know if it were me, there is no way i could stand it for over 10 mins anyway.

[Fair_play_boy]

Irony, sarcasm, and bias aside, can anybody outside the pale understand the utter arrogance of the FAI in appointing a Dublin ref in a potential league title decider which involved one Dublin team?

[thecorner]

Irony, sarcasm, and bias aside, can anybody outside the pale understand the utter arrogance of the FAI in appointing a Dublin ref in a potential league title decider which involved one Dublin team?

would u have preferred a certain ref from waterford

[thecorner]

We have Jim O'Neill this Friday at home to Derry.

season over

[patsh]

Irony, sarcasm, and bias aside, can anybody outside the pale understand the utter arrogance of the FAI in appointing a Dublin ref in a potential league title decider which involved one Dublin team?

Well there are few refs from outside Dublin will be one of the reasons given.
It would be interesting though to see the reaction if Alan Kelly had been appointed for the game....

[Fair_play_boy]

would u have preferred a certain ref from waterford

It isn't that the ref was just bad. And I am not suggesting he was deliberately favouring Shels. But he took a lot of grief from the Shels players. And they never seem to go up to him alone. As one guy beside me in the stand said, when two tall players at a time are shouting hard down into your face, their spit alone is enough to intimidate you. I suspect that sort of behaviour makes most refs slower to give decisions against the bully boys. On Friday, things got so bad that even Dan Murray lost it, and he is one of the coolest characters in the game, IMO. So, to answer you, the Waterford ref is lousy, but when he is "in charge", both teams suffer in equal measure more or less, and if you feel sick about certain decisions that do not go your way, at least you know he is just a l@nger, and not a coward who fleadhs your team in order to protect himself.

[Fair_play_boy]

Well there are few refs from outside Dublin will be one of the reasons given.

There are dozens of refs within 40 minutes flight time of Dublin. They can't cost very much to hire for one-off games. Or, if the FAI could stir itself to think a little outside the box, a simple pairing system could see refs from across the pond swap with some irish refs each week. It would broaden their experience, and give us and other non-Dublin teams a chance to feel we were fairly treated.

[colblimp]

I have a solution for this problem lads.

In future, at all home and away games, we are each given a numbered ticket as we enter the ground. There is a draw 15 minutes before the game starts and whoever has the ticket that is pulled from the hat referees the game.

Sorted!!

[Éanna]

But he took a lot of grief from the Shels players. And they never seem to go up to him alone. As one guy beside me in the stand said, when two tall players at a time are shouting hard down into your face, their spit alone is enough to intimidate you.

shels are experts at pressuring refs. they've been doing it for years and it works. sounds terrible to say it, but we'll get nowhere complaining about it, we might as well just do it ourselves. as for some refs being better than others, I think they're all brutal with one or two being particularly bad e.g. O'Neill. Don't think having a Dublin ref makes a huge difference, it just looks amateur and stupid.

[niamh]

In an ideal situation games should not be refed by home town men but with so many clubs in Dublin this is impossible in the eircom League.
I don't think any fans think the refs in their leagues are great - remember the suggestion that they get Collina in for the Arsenal-Man U games?
We have to believe that refs try to be fair but they surely, even subconsiously, they don't like certain teams and certain fans.
The ref was poor on Friday but in general, apart from the refs during the Intertoto Cup, they have been all season.

[The Sheliban]

I thought the ref was okay. Didn't make any howlers, and he got the penalty appeal spot on.
What is laughable though is the premise that if you're a Dublin ref, you're going to favour the Dublin team. As an example, just supposing their was a ref who was a fervent Bohs fan in secret. He's going to give Shels and Rovers dodgy decisions over Cork, Waterford, Drogheda?? If anything he's going to be biased against Shels and Rovers.
Face it lads, you drew a game. You weren't robbed. Bit of luck you could have won, bit of luck Shels could have won.
As for Shels intimidating refs, if we try to do it, it certainly doesn't work, for we've had Jason Byrne, Alan Moore and Wes all sent off this season for dissent.

[SÓC]

What is laughable though is the premise that if you're a Dublin ref, you're going to favour the Dublin team. As an example, just supposing their was a ref who was a fervent Bohs fan in secret. He's going to give Shels and Rovers dodgy decisions over Cork, Waterford, Drogheda?? If anything he's going to be biased against Shels and Rovers.

As for Shels intimidating refs, if we try to do it, it certainly doesn't work.

Sheliban you just made our point for us. Lets just say (for now) a one in four chance that the Ref will favour Shels, he's a fan etc. Then, by your logic, there is a 3 in 4 chance he's against ye, which is hardly fair or proper either.

Can you imagne what would happen if Kelly was appointed to Ref the game?!? Shel's would press speed dial 1 on their fone straight away and be onto their Senior Counsel to arrange a High Court date....

And as for intimidating Refs, Owen Heary pushed a ref in Turners Cross which only lead to the Ref being suspended, the same would not apply to a team managed by Dolan

*edit* sorry forgot to say that in THIS particular match I dont think the Ref made that much of a difference

[colblimp]

As for Shels intimidating refs, if we try to do it, it certainly doesn't work, for we've had Jason Byrne, Alan Moore and Wes all sent off this season for dissent.

Well that sums up your footballing knowledge, you can't get sent off for "dissent". Dissent is a cautionable offence......

[Fair_play_boy]

What is laughable though is the premise that if you're a Dublin ref, you're going to favour the Dublin team. As an example, just supposing their was a ref who was a fervent Bohs fan in secret. He's going to give Shels and Rovers dodgy decisions over Cork, Waterford, Drogheda?? If anything he's going to be biased against Shels and Rovers.
Face it lads, you drew a game. You weren't robbed. Bit of luck you could have won, bit of luck Shels could have won.
As for Shels intimidating refs, if we try to do it, it certainly doesn't work, for we've had Jason Byrne, Alan Moore and Wes all sent off this season for dissent.

How is it possible to misunderstand a post so completely? First Sheliban, the issue is primarily about Shelbourne. No other team abuses and intimidates refs so consistently, apparently with such purpose, and apparently with so much success. It seems to be built into their game plan to put the ref under pressure if he tries to ref the game fairly. This may not be the case, and it does not come out in the edited video highlights. But look at the next few games in the first 20 minutes especially. Watch who from Shels makes a run up to the ref to give out to him. Make your own judgement.
Second, Shels were worth their draw on the way the two teams played. That is partly my point. After a brilliant start, City lost momentum after a series of strange refereeing decisions. I know from my own playing days that when a certain pattern sets in, it affects the whole team's performance. I believe that happened in Tolka last Friday night; once we knew we were up against 12, it affected our game.
Third, take your observations away from the context of Tolka Park. In the game away against Deportivo, did you see the ref handing out yellow cards for dissent? No you did not. A coward uses the cards to protect himself. They are there to protect the players. The ref in the away Depo game simply waved away the grief, and the Shels players soon gave up trying this route.
Lastly, I think you know full well where I am coming from on this. Even if the criticism of the ref appears over the top to you, any Shels supporter with a grain of decency will admit that a home town ref is not a good idea in any circumstances, even for the reason that people will think that they are being screwed.

[Éanna]

a home town ref is not a good idea in any circumstances, even for the reason that people will think that they are being screwed.

thats it exactly. even if the ref is being fair, it allows for the allegation of bias which cocks the whole thing up. in fairness, its always gonna happen that we get dub refs for some games, but for a game of this magnitude, they could have made an effort to get someone else

[The Sheliban]

Fair enough, justice must not only be done, but be seen to be done.
However, I suspect that wherever a ref is from, the conspiracy theorists will be out in force. If he were a Sligo ref, he'd be accused by Shels of being anti-Dub. If he were a Drog ref, he'd want Cork to slip up etc
All this is being somewhat unfair to the ref. We've had refs this season whose decisions have cost us points. However I believe refs have bad games, like players. Not because they're biased, or where they're from, but because nobody plays well every game.
Compared to some of the refs we've had, and taking into consideration the importance of the game, I thought the ref did well.
If he was giving dodgy decisions to Shels all the time, how come you claim Shels players were constantly protesting?

[jimhacker]

Remember when Keely lost the plot about having the Waterford ref in Turners Cross?

He tried to insist that there should never be a Munster ref for our home games!

Ironic or what?

[Colm]

Remember when Keely lost the plot about having the Waterford ref in Turners Cross?

He tried to insist that there should never be a Munster ref for our home games!

Ironic or what?

Yeah that was the day in 98 when we were winning 2-1 and O'Neill forgot to play the 2 minutes of injury time.
Ollie Byrne lost the plot (what a surprise!) and ran onto the pitch to try and assualt the ref, he had to be removed be stewards.
Shels then tried unsuccessfully to get the game replayed.

It would have been interesting to see how Byrne, Fenlon and co would have reacted had Fridays game been reffed by a non-Dublin ref and City had won!

[thecorner]

o'neill was pathetic last night again but was for both sides...over byb the corner benno headed out for a corner and was amazed himself when o'neill pointed for a goal kick for city

the man is brain dead...also remember the corner ball he gave derry

as for foley.....dont get me started on him