QuoteDon't know how he qualifies but apparently he was in an Under 19 training camp previously to get a feel for it. Decided to commit and this is his first proper call up.Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I've been out of touch. How long has Moorhouse been mooted as an Irish recruit and how does he qualify?
Don't know how he qualifies but apparently he was in an Under 19 training camp previously to get a feel for it. Decided to commit and this is his first proper call up.
Reading up on the squad. Joe Gardner's mother is from Dublin. Connor O'Brien's father is from Drogheda. Can't see anything on Moorhouse.
It will be interesting to see how he goes because he plays in a position where, if he shows promise, there could be a case to fast-track him into a senior squad if he's happy to commit.
United fan I follow on twitter raves about him, was delighted when I DM'd him the squad with Moorhouse in it
Maybe there was talents, but lost to an over-reliance on outsourcing player development? Would be interesting to know how many kids born 1993 – 1997 went to UK clubs before the age of 18 and compare than with a different time period. To judge the anomality, that is.
You are offering an opinion that the current U21 squad selected for upcoming friendly games, (a group of players that have yet to play a competitive game and unclear if the squad selected will be reflective of squads selected for competitive games), as suggestive of a negative Brexit impact on the quality of player at our disposal. I offered a comparison of competitive teams fielded pre-Brexit over two qualification campaigns as a dismissal of your Brexit is bad for us tendencies, which I believe is pre-mature without a decade or more of factual evidence to justify this opinion. You are choosing to reject this comparison as “we know that very few talents emerged from the 1993 to 1997 year groups” but are insistent that the current group’s subjective weakness is suggestive of a negative Brexit effect rather than an anomality or the historically norm where some years produce better players than others.
Not sure why the development of Curtis, Melia and Noonan will be viewed with increased scrutiny, by parents? I suppose having their kids stay at home until 18 and still command a hefty transfer fee will raise eyebrows though. And Sam Curtis has just turned 19. James Abankwah was being written off (here) at 19 because he wasn’t getting in a L1 team. Let’s calm down before totally writing him off. And honestly, a language barrier. Ok to ship 16 year kids off to digs in Manchester but don’t send them a foreign speaking country. Jeez.
We know who the 2004 and 2005 players are by now, particularly the Irish born ones, we don't need to have them named in multiple under 21 squads to find out who they are.
It's just interesting that you are so keen to try to shut down this line of discussion. Nobody is saying at this point that Brexit is the root cause of the drop off from the previous under 21 groups to this crop, but it's a major change to our player development pathways compared to previous groups so obviously any trends here are going to be looked at. But you seem determined to ensure that any possible link is dismissed out of hand and not considered until years, decades even, into the future. I wonder why that is?
What trends? What possible links? Show them. If you post your subjective opinion on an open forum, the possibility exists it could be challenged (Ordinarily I usually ignore it/ not read it, but quiet day today). And it's a silly attempt at deflection to label questioning of subjectivity as an attempt to shut a conversation down. And do you really need to wonder why an Irish football fan wants to maximise our player development? Really?
You should have a read of this https://online.flippingbook.com/view/194290909/
Found also this while rooting up the first link. Not Ireland specific but relevant findings. https://belgianfootball.s3.eu-centra...evelopment.pdf
Very interesting find. Haven't had time to scan it properly, but the Abstract had this interesting nugget:
"... the fixed effects estimates prove that players leaving to England before having first team experience perform significantly worse than youth players who stayed in Belgium. Moreover, their market value and hence wages will also be lower. These observations are however not significant for youth transfers to the Netherlands or France. This implies that young players need to be warned for a youth transfer to England"
Perhaps the study elaborates, but I suspect that this difference is accounted for by two things:
1. English academies are so big, and (at least pre-Brexit) drew players from all over, so they are/were maybe less patient and/or more ruthless in ditiching youngsters who didn't make it straightaway. Brentford cottoned on to this, so that after ditching their own Academy due to unfair new financial regulations which hurt them, they successfully replaced it with a 'B'Team set-up, which drew upon 17 and 18 y.o.'s who had been discarded prematurely from other clubs' academies and brought them on into their early 20's;
2. The cultural, distance and language differences must put English football at a disadvantage to the Dutch and French when accommodating Belgian youngsters, all the more should they come from an African background originally, as a fair number do.
Which in the light of your comment* in #386, could be reversed for Irish youngsters going to England in preference to the Continent i.e. they're more likely to settle in quickly eg in Manchester or Liverpool than they would do in Munich or Lille?
* -" And honestly, a language barrier. Ok to ship 16 year kids off to digs in Manchester but don’t send them a foreign speaking country. Jeez."
Last edited by EalingGreen; 14/03/2025 at 3:13 PM.
There's a good clutch of non Irish born players in this squad. No major issues with it but one of them playing with Tamworth in National League North (Ronan Maher) gives Noel King vibes. 7 in total might be par for course.
Disappointed not to see Sean Moore in there, mainly for his courage in switching!
Once again, this is your decision to start an argument, not mine. I'm simply raising a possibility, not claiming anything definitively. You've gone off on one because you can't even deal with it being put forward as a suggestion.
I haven't read your links, but if it's something to do with success rates of Belgian footballers overseas as the subsequent posts suggest, then I think it can be safely ignored from an Irish point of view as Belgian kids have access to far better facilities and coaching than is available in Ireland.
Didn't realise he was left out. Really dumb...
I will say, the 2004 class I think were by far the ones most effected by covid in terms of the football they missed at the key moment in their development. The 2005 lads had some friendlies at u16 and an u17 qualification etc, whereas the 2004 lads missed their u16 and their u17 tournament and u18 is generally a pretty dead year (although there were a few friendlies against Hungary if I remember correctly).
RE Brexit, we've yet to really see any Brexit successes of all the players that headed to the continent or who stayed. James Abankwah might be the first (bit of a weird one in that he stayed until 18 and ended up signing in the continent anyway).
Nzingo at u15 and the beginning of 16s was considered the 2004 most talented player (Evan was playing a year up with the 2003 kids) - don't think the path to France really worked for him. It happens though. Okoflex was really highly rated at the same age and it turned out how it looks Nzingo will turned out. It does feel very hard to judge overall, my gut test says it's been bad for us - that Adam Murphy, Alex Murphy, Sean Grehan, Justin Ferizaj, Mark O'Mahony, Glory Nzingo, Conor Walsh, Kevin Zefi, Franco Umeh, Jamie Mullins, Joe O'Brien Whitmarsh - that those guys would be better now if they had gone to an English team at 15/16. But really who knows? If Tayo Adaramola was a 2004 kid and was the player he is now, I might have put that down to his lack of elite development from what was a really really promising player at u17 and u19 level.
Moore played in the two games at the end of last year, I think this squad is more about looking at players in the fringes for the qualifying group
No issue with that if that’s the case - but once again, then if that’s how we’re viewing it, why are we calling Melia up if it’s a camp to look at fringe players - call up Eoin Kenny or Tommy Lonergan or Adrian Thibauld to play second fiddle to Mark O’Mahony
In terms of the debate earlier in the week as to whether the situation with players staying on longer in Ireland these days is a benefit or a problem, this article raises some very interesting points:
https://archive.ph/HeZq2
The problem is it's pretty much been shown that moving abroad too young is, on balance, detrimental to a player's development in general.
It may be better than staying in the LoI - but if so, that's indicative of a big problem Irish football is facing, and I suspect we can expect to continue being international also-rans as long as we perpetuate a failed developmental model.
I don't think anyone would disagree that it's aspirational to want to have better structures at home. But this is about what's available in Ireland right now, not what we'd like there to be available.
Zefi's call up for the Albanian U21s confirmed
https://fshf.org/sq/miqesoret-ndaj-g...blikon-listen/
It's not aspirational - it's essential. Going abroad at 16 is generally speaking not good for a player's development.
Essential or not, they presently don't exist. The current options are - go abroad outside the UK at 16, or stay in Ireland with the current structures until 18 and go abroad then or later.
No other options exist if the player wants to reach a high level in the game. So in terms of discussing current emerging players there's no point in discussing anything outside of the above options.
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