2018–19 UEFA Nations League

[geysir]

You're a bit behind on the thread. My more recent posts have covered those now. Edit - also, you edited your post after I replied. I see the Indo article now; thanks.

Now I'm behind the thread I introduced what was being reported in other media outlets here.And now we have got to a better understanding of what is on the table at the Uefa congress and that the World Cup play off places, an idea previously dismissed, is still a live possibility.

But I still don't see how it can be "even harder for us to get to a WC ever again". Same number of teams qualifying should lead to a similar chance for us. Even if qualification is given to the top two in Divisions 2 and 3 (to cover the Division 1 winner already qualifying anyway and the Division 4 winner not being good enough, or even there not being a Division 4), sometimes we'll qualify that way

Qualifying is not just a numbers game, a number game that 14 qualifying spots under the present system is equal to 14 qualifying spots under another system and that we would have an equal chance under both systems.
I suspect that the nations league system will give a better chance to better teams than us, who don't win their WC qual group outright, to snatch a WC Finals spot
I suspect, means I'm suspicious that it will be more difficult, I don't yet have a case that I can bring to the court of public opinion, because we don't know anything yet. Nothing has been confirmed re the format.

[pineapple stu]

I introduced what was being reported in other media outlets here.

And I addressed it later on (the Sky Sports link), but after that, you went back to the start.

Anyways, moving back on topic.

I suspect that the nations league system will give a better chance to better teams than us, who don't win their WC qual group outright, to snatch a WC Finals spot
I suspect, means I'm suspicious that it will be more difficult, I don't yet have a case that I can bring to the court of public opinion, because we don't know anything yet. Nothing has been confirmed re the format.

If there's four qualification spots going to teams outside the top 16, then it's better for us at present. Simply no question.

Which is why I don't at the moment see how that can work.

But I still can't share your pessimism or suspicion. Platini's other reform - the Champions' League qualifying - has benefitted mid-ranking teams.

[Stuttgart88]

In one sense it sounds a bit like UEFA's version of the League Cup in England (whatever it's called now). The Euros is still the big one but this is a great consolation prize and probably has its own charms and merits. I'd like to see more than one promotion / relegation spot though. It'd be more meritocratic, and also it'd keep interest in the competition running for longer.

[pineapple stu]

I'd like to see more than one promotion / relegation spot though.

Definitely. But I think if there's four wildcards, then that hints at two for Division 2 and two for Division three, so two promotion spots seems logical.

It'd kind of give you the feel of being a fan of a third-tier English fan actually; kind of cool! We'd start out in Division 3, but we know we could rise to Division 1 (and not stay there all that long), and one bad season and we could even hover with disaster and a drop to Division 4. I think it's a great idea.

[DeLorean]

I just don't get the wildcard bit. Why would it be logical to give a qualification spot to the winners of a lower group? Would this not be unfair on the the teams competing in the higher groups that don't qualify?

[NeverFeltBetter]

I think it's a great idea myself, but it seems clear from other linked stories that exact format decisions are still a while away. I like what the original article suggested I suppose and by the time this actually comes around Ireland could have jumped up a few places to the "second" tier nations of Europe again. But I'd certainly see the whole thing as secondary to actual qualifying. If there was a team that grabbed a spot from Qualifying and "won" Division Two, I'd give the available spot to the next team in qualifying.

[osarusan]

I just don't get the wildcard bit. Why would it be logical to give a qualification spot to the winners of a lower group? Would this not be unfair on the the teams competing in the higher groups that don't qualify?

And whats to stop a team keeping their second seeding for the original qualifying, but not being too bothered about relegation to a lower tier of the new tournament, thus giving them another shot at qualification as a wildcard for future tournaments?

There would have to be a system in place to stop teams benefitting from high seeding in one qualifying, and from low seeding in another.

[paul_oshea]

The new tournament would not replace the current qualifying competitions for those major events, but it would award the four qualification spots that are currently decided by the play-offs.

Are they saying that the 4 European qualifying places for the World Cup would now be given to this new League? That would only benefit the big teams.

We would find it even harder to qualify for a world cup now.

Its a nice idea, but thats all it is. I can't see how it could be fairly executed.

The only way i would see it working to ensure everyone is competitive is those who have already qualified, start from the next one up, so lets say the top 12 places are in division 1 and 2, and division 1 and 2 are made up of 6 teams each, then the top 4 in division 3 would get the places. Thats about the only fair way to do this. Its a league, forget abotu semi-finals and finals, thats just a beta prize, the real thing is qualifying for a world cup.

Even if the 12 teams are qualified through the group stage for example, then it would be sprinkled amongst the highest placed teams in the divisions, either way it would ensure that generally the top teams would be winning the groups and/or in the highest positions in the league, so it would keep interest in both formats.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Nothing has been confirmed yet, and such a decision is for FIFA, not UEFA, to make.

[paul_oshea]

Is it not up to uefa how they allocate world cup positions based on the total number allowed to them by FIFA?

[NeverFeltBetter]

From an article Stu linked earlier: "It is believed part of the proposal includes European nations winning qualifying places for the 2022 World Cup in Qatar but UEFA sources say that would require separate approval from world football's governing body." If UEFA want to alter how nations qualify for the Euros, that's their business, but FIFA gets more power when it comes to the World Cup.

[pineapple stu]

Are they saying that the 4 European qualifying places for the World Cup would now be given to this new League? That would only benefit the big teams.

There's lots of articles, but all seem to have in common that wildcards would go hand in hand with promotion. If the top division is 16 teams, that means the wildcards are only available to the teams below that. That'd benefit us (for now), not the big teams.

[Stuttgart88]

Let's see. Intuitively I find it hard to believe that those teams in the bottom half of the top division (i.e., those countries most likely to contest the traditional playoffs) would accept lower league wildcards at their expense. My instinctive view is that this sounds like a super competition that will really spice up boring friendly dates but at the same time I just can't see it being anything but harder for a country like us to qualify if the traditional playopffs are dropped.

It could even open up the perverse incentive of deliberately losing to gain access to an automatic wild card from a lower division.

[NeverFeltBetter]

BBC article: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26747394

It seems fairly clear that this is definitely going ahead, but it will be a while before firm details are known.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ultimately, seems a bit pointless...

http://balls.ie/football/great-news-for-ireland-nations-league-looks-increasingly-likely/

[pineapple stu]

More pointless than friendlies?

[ArdeeBhoy]

More pointless than the Euros maybe?

As have said repeatedly, there's far far too much football generally and mediocre internationals are no exception.
More quality, less quantity!

Nice idea in theory, but WTF will it be fitted in...

[NeverFeltBetter]

...There doesn't seem to be any surplus of games. It's replacing friendly dates. In a group of four as some articles have suggested, that's 6 games, which is about the amount of friendlies Ireland plays a year anyway. In a larger group over two years, there's plenty of space for up to 12 games.

[pineapple stu]

For the record, here's the friendlies we've played in the last two years -

Serbia (H)
Poland (A)
Latvia (H)
Wales (A)
Spain (N)
Georgia (H)
England (A)
Poland (H)
Greece (H)
Oman (N)
Serbia (A)
Hungary (A)
Bosnia (H)

13 friendlies in two years. Spain and England the only two big ones there really. So if there's room for one glamour friendly a year, then we're losing nothing really. Even then, the Spain game was in America so probably wasn't a big game for the FAI (compared to having it in Lansdowne), and England's a bit of a special case.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Am instinctivley in favour of this. Sod the 'glamour friendlies'. They generally decend into some of the most unremarkable kickabouts we get involved in -often failing to serve the purpose friendlies are there for and failing to raise as much readies as had been expected. Qualifying for things -now that raises money.