Winsor Park and a tri-colour

[MikeNI]

You posted a response trying to belittle Samuel's comments......

I don't need to belittle Samuel comments - they do that job pefectly well on their own. He tries to belittle the identity of NI Uninists by callign anyone whose allegiance is to the Union Flag a 'knuckle head' then goes on to demonstrate he has completely failed to grasp the 'identity' issue.

not trying to attack you personally, but you're obviously not understanding why the UJ is so offensive,FFS!

I do understand why nationalists would find it offensive. Just as many unionists might find the Tricolour offensive for their own reasons. However I think that a a bit of respect for other people's allegiances and identities would go a long way.

[ShelsTim]

Ah, good ol' peace and reconciliation, eh?

Just for personal knowledge which teams are safe to bring the tricolour to and which are not. Are Cliftonville the only catholic/nationalist team up North. Forgive my ignorance of my country.

[MikeNI]

Ah, good ol' peace and reconciliation, eh?

Just for personal knowledge which teams are safe to bring the tricolour to and which are not. Are Cliftonville the only catholic/nationalist team up North. Forgive my ignorance of my country.

To qualify it a bit, Cliftonville are the only club with a significant support which is also seen as predominantly Catholic/nationalist.

I wouldn't think you'd have much problem taking a tricolour to the away end at Windsor or the Oval. Of the other teams that actually have many fans these days and you could actually play in the Setanta Cup over the next few years, that leaves Portadown and Coleraine - both might be seen as a bit 'dodgy' but to be honest I wouldn't think most would be too bothered about Shels fans coming up with a tricolour.

[WindmillWarrior]

I don't need to belittle Samuel comments - they do that job pefectly well on their own. He tries to belittle the identity of NI Uninists by callign anyone whose allegiance is to the Union Flag a 'knuckle head' then goes on to demonstrate he has completely failed to grasp the 'identity' issue.



I do understand why nationalists would find it offensive. Just as many unionists might find the Tricolour offensive for their own reasons. However I think that a a bit of respect for other people's allegiances and identities would go a long way.

Very well said mate. Sums it up nicely.

[Troy.McClure]

Samuel old son, if you want to go on a rant about 'Northern knuckle heads' the least you could do is get even a basic grasp of the allegiances and identites of people in NI.

Saying that the St Patrick's Cross does not represent NI Unionsts is just plain wrong.

And for all your attacks on Unionists for rejecting the Tricolour even though it has an orange band, nationalists too reject the Union Flag even though the St Patricks cross was included to represent Ireland.

And finally, the Flags and Emblems Act was gone long before the Good Friday Agreement.

Where are people finding a problem with this? Just common knowledge as far as I can see.

To be honest I dont see why people are getting so wound up. Fair enough most southerners have concerns about bringing a tri colour to the north as extreamests are not uncommon there but why should people be so wound up over a union jack at a football match in Ireland? Havent people moved on yet? How people in Ireland have no problem buying Man U or Arsenal shirts or traveling accross the sea to watch them play and get up tight about british people waving union jacks confuses me.

Flynninio

if linfield come to the cross there will be war.these cnuts are just biggots who will wreak havoc.and i doubt the cork crowd will stand for it. i for one will not accept there orange *******s trying it on.

1) How many Linfield fans have you ever met and how did they come accross as biggoted?
2) How many games have you been to in the north?
3) Why will there be war at the X?
4) Why do you doubt that the Cork corwd will 'stand for it'
5) Have you ever heard of Dunfield?

[rebelcorkbhoy]

i cant believe that someone has just asked a question why does someone else think linfield are bigots. there fans are one third of the blues brothers. them the rangers casuals and the chelsea headhunters. just visit the headhunters site and you will see the connection between the 3 and how much they hate the irish. linfield are also the non biggoted team who play rangers every year in a friendly (loyalist celebration) where a loyalist flute band play triumphantly before the game. not bigots me ******

[A face]

Dont have time to read through all of this but i'll have a shot off this one

i cant believe that someone has just asked a question why does someone else think linfield are bigots.

What do you mean you cant believe, what is wrong with asking ... and contesting what make be wrong or a sweeping gereralisation.

Can we not do that now .... are you not prepared to have someone question anything that might go against what you have made you mind up on already.

there fans are one third of the blues brothers. them the rangers casuals and the chelsea headhunters. just visit the headhunters site and you will see the connection between the 3 and how much they hate the irish.

Come here ... step back a while now and think about that ..... Are ALL Linfield fans like that. You are going to get a couple of fools everywhere .. and there just happen to be 3 sets of like minded fools in contact (at least you claim this anyway) .... so you tar them all with the one brush.

Think about it ..... these fools dont even support the game.

One thing about you argument .... you dont appear at all open minded, and you'd have to question that. Anyone with a sense would have to question it.

linfield are also the non biggoted team who play rangers every year in a friendly (loyalist celebration) where a loyalist flute band play triumphantly before the game. not bigots me ******

Ah ... hello ... Ireland are playing Celtic soon in a friendly .... how is that looked upon ??? Is that also going to be deemed biggoted ???

Cork City play Lausanne a few years ago at the cross and there was a pipeband there playing triumphantly before the game ..... Are we deemed biggots now ???


Hold back a while head ... and dont be reading into all you hear at all

And the other bloke what asked would "City fans stand for it" ..... Where are you going fella ... where in gods name do you think you are. What in gods name gives you the idea that you dont have to behave in public, act that **** all for the sake of Cork City .... If you start trouble or anyone like ya starts trouble ... then you should get banned for life. It is muppets like you that will give the Setanta cup a bad name.

[lopez]

...what is wrong with asking ... and contesting what make be wrong or a sweeping gereralisation. Can we not do that now .... are you not prepared to have someone question anything that might go against what you have made you mind up on already.

You are going to get a couple of fools everywhere .. and there just happen to be 3 sets of like minded fools in contact (at least you claim this anyway) .... so you tar them all with the one brush.

One thing about you argument .... you dont appear at all open minded, and you'd have to question that. Anyone with a sense would have to question it.

LOL. From the poster who sweepingly describes ALL 'Sell-Thick' fans as muppets and Brits.

Ah ... hello ... Ireland are playing Celtic soon in a friendly .... how is that looked upon ??? Is that also going to be deemed biggoted ???

That's it my son. Don't forget to mention your favourite British club.

Rebelcorkbhoy: Linfield used to play Shamrock Rovers quite a lot in pre season friendlies during the summer in the nineties. That hardly makes the club sectarian although their practice of not signing Catholics in the eighties and before was. Celtic play Rangers four times a year - they played them four times a year even when they also refused to sign Catholics (which, call me a cynic, was to Celtic's advantage) - and took an allocation for supporters (thus lining the pockets of this 'sectarian' club with Catholic money).

An A*se: Good post. Just try following some of your own advice!

[rebelcorkbhoy]

lopez me oul buddy who brought celtic in to this. i only posted that linfield are a bunch of loalist bigots. btw a face you are a clown. ireland are playing celtic in a testomonial game. can you imagine the uproar if the wolf tones were to play pitchside before during and after. starting with go on home british soldiers. but you reckon its all right for linfield to do this with rangers every year cause celtic are playing ireland in a friendly. wipe your mouth your talking sh*t

[A face]

btw a face you are a clown. ireland are playing celtic in a testomonial game.

So ... that does take from my point !!

you reckon its all right for linfield to do this with rangers every year cause celtic are playing ireland in a friendly. wipe your mouth your talking sh*t

They can do what ever the fcuk they want .... why shouldn't they, why should it upset you so much ..... for something you have so little regards for ... you seem to get really worked up about it. How does it impact on you exactly.

For what its worth ... i see the point you are trying to make, but view it in a different way. You and others of the same mind-set will not look at the whole picture or at least try and be objective about it. (i am not singling you out on your own, just making a point)

[Plastic Paddy]

Oh the sheer delicious irony of you berating someone else for holding a narrow view of one team's supporters without regard for the diversity within. I can hardly type for laughing at you. Sheer ****ing poetry, son. Beautiful.

PP

[Plastic Paddy]

I wasn't responding to you Sammy, old son, but since you've posted this, I feel I have to.

Diversity my ********-narrow sectarian views should be encouraged. Take the Old Firm-they talk about stamping out sectarianism-but if it wasn't for the fact that they hate each other and look on matches betwwen Celtic and Rangers as an affirmation of their superiority (if the win) then there would be no-one going to the matches

Utter, utter nonsense. Both the opinion you express and the judgement you draw are so wide of the mark it's almost funny. "Narrow sectarian views should be encouraged". Post of the week. Given contributions elsewhere, that's quite an accolade. "There would be no-one going to the matches". Garbage. OF league games account for selling the best part of a quarter of a million seats a year combined, and that's without the cup matches. You cannot seriously be suggesting that any more than a small minority go to the games because of their deep-seated hatred of the oppposition? Most - believe this or not - simply go to watch a passionate football match. It might not have occurred to you that for many supporters, of both Celtic and Rangers alike, view this as a city derby. Nothing more. And that's despite what the media would like us to believe.

the question we should be asking is why testemonials are allowed for players that have been extremly well paid for their limited talents. The concept of testemonials was first introduced when pro players in Britain were on just above the minimum industrial wage. These days we have millionaires quing up to stick their snouts in the trough one last time-its obscene.

Credit where it's due. I agree wholeheartedly with this point in respect of Premiership footballers. Those lower down the food chain may actually derive real benefit from such recognition, but for those at the top, it reeks of exploitation. Niall Quinn's action (in donating the take from his game to charity) should have opened the debate on this right up; unfortunately, it's not in the interest of those that ultimately benefit from such fixtures (the unholy trinity of players, agents and sponsors) to follow his lead.

PP

[lopez]

lopez me oul buddy who brought celtic in to this.

You weren't the one who brought Celtic into it, but you brought Rangers in.

i only posted that linfield are a bunch of loalist bigots.

Do Linfield discriminate against Catholics? Are all their supporters members of C Coy.? Can we describe Rangers in such terms instead? In an ideal world Linfield would like to have a fanbase including the bit between the Shankill and the Lisburn Road to choose from, but the world isn't and Linfield doesn't. Being a club with overwhelming if not exclusive unionist support is often beyond the club's control in the 6C when you see streets divided on politico/religious grounds by a mini version of the Berlin Wall. As for this so-called Loyalist love in, so what? Unionists not allowed to watch football now or play against clubs with huge support in the 6C?

[Troy.McClure]

RebelCorkBoy and Flynnio, what are ye're thoughts on Dunfield seeing as ye know so much about Linfield?

[A face]

RebelCorkBoy and Flynnio, what are ye're thoughts on Dunfield seeing as ye know so much about Linfield?

Man ... they haven't a frickin' clue ... wasting you time in askng !!

Celtic and Rangers alike, view this as a city derby. Nothing more

Yeah ... and how does the Glasgow City council view it and the social problems incurred as a result ...... like a frickin' tea party i suppose. Some of their minutes and related document make interesting reading .... but i'm sure you see that as ... how did you put it again .... utter, utter nonsense


Sure ... tis only a game of ball, who cares what problems are left behind, the tax payer will pick up the tab, no worries !! Everything is just frickin' dandy !!

[A face]

So small bhoy,Can you enlighten us on Cork Hibs-CELTIC derby games of yore(& whether they passed off peacefully).......I doubt it,on both counts!

If you are referring to me (bhoy??) .....

We'll i wasn't old enough so that is one count excluded

The second ... yeah, no problems, nothing to the point where it devalued the price of housing etc.

[eoinh]

The ironic thing about Northern knuckle heads
waving a Union Jack is that the failed political entity
that is the North. is not respresented on the flag and
our Patron Saint is.

The Union Jack is comprised of the flags of St Patrick, St Andrew,
and Saint George all intermingled.

And ironically again Northern Unionists are represented
on the Irish tri-color via the Orange band band, white being
for peace, and green for us leprechauns.

So they swear allegience to a flag which does no acknowledge them
and spit at a flag which does.

has the flags and emblems act in the North passed by anal retentive unionists
which banned the flying of the tri-color (which recognises them) being rescinded under the terms of the good Friday aggreement?

The flag of St. Patrick was "made up" to fit on the pre-1801 union jack. There was really no flag of St. Patrick that represented Ireland. The flag that is regarded as most representing Ireland was a Harp on a green or blue background. Its actually on the Monarchs standard in Britain. Most Protestants in the North are Presbyterian but up until fairly recently those who held most sway in the North and South before partition tended to be Church of Ireland. For COI members Saint Patrick is as important to them as it is to Roman Catholics, witness the large amount of COI churches and parishs in Ireland (both north and south) called Saint Patricks.

If, hopefully there is a united Ireland sometime in the future im sure deals will be done and comprises will have to be reached. I would wager one thing though. The future flag of Ireland will not be the union jack or the tricolour. The "Harp" may make its return. I could see Amhran na bhFiann being ditched as well with that stupid rugger song being introduced.

[rebelcorkbhoy]

lopez i would still have to say that linfield are a loyalist biggoted club. if they were not why are they playing rangers nearly every year with a flute band and orange men leading both teams out. imagine if city got a pre-season friendly with celtic and lennox booked gerry adams and the wolf tones to lead both sides out. then cork city would be a sectarian club and the people who run would be bigots lennox included. so look at these facts and yes linfield are a bigoted club.

[gspain]

lopez i would still have to say that linfield are a loyalist biggoted club. if they were not why are they playing rangers nearly every year with a flute band and orange men leading both teams out. imagine if city got a pre-season friendly with celtic and lennox booked gerry adams and the wolf tones to lead both sides out. then cork city would be a sectarian club and the people who run would be bigots lennox included. so look at these facts and yes linfield are a bigoted club.

Since the end of WW1 I believe Linfield have met Rangers 5 times

1930
1955
1984
2002
2003

I may have missed 1 or possibly 2 but this hardly constitutes nearly every year. Do you want to list the date sof any other games you know?

I very much doubt that a band in Orange regalia led the teams out at of the last 3. Do you have any source for this?

BTW Bohemians also met Rangers 5 times since the end of WW1 and quite a few times before that too.

[lopez]

lopez i would still have to say that linfield are a loyalist biggoted club. if they were not why are they playing rangers nearly every year with a flute band and orange men leading both teams out. imagine if city got a pre-season friendly with celtic and lennox booked gerry adams and the wolf tones to lead both sides out. then cork city would be a sectarian club and the people who run would be bigots lennox included. so look at these facts and yes linfield are a bigoted club.

I'd agree with Gary. I'm no expert on Linfield but I think his list is about right and it hardly suggests an annual tradition. I interviewed Linfield's then chairman David Campbell (ironically on the subject of an all-Ireland football competition) in the nineties for an Irish newspaper in Britain. Together with his enthusiasm for the revival of this competition, he stated that the club had three players from the 26C at the time and southern clubs came up for friendlies and testimonials. I confessed that (in the pre internet days) I hadn't heard much of these games and he stated (truthfully) that they would get publicity in England if there was a riot. There is a whole lot of truth about this because I remember watching the Dundalk v Linfield kick-off in August 1979 on the news and it was the first time I had ever heard of the club.

I find it hard to accept that Linfield play Rangers with a flute band and especially with a troop of the Loyal Orange Order in attendance. A (Scottish) pipe band perhaps, and while this may be construed as narrowly ethnic (as narrowly as Irish dancers at our Amsterdam game with Holland in 2000), I can't see the problem. Even if there is a flute band - Limerick had a loyalist flute band for this years St Patrick's day - I'd ask who was playing (members of the UVF, UDA etc.) and what songs they are playing (The Billy Boys).

If this has ever happened then you must have a newspaper source of it. E.g: The Irish News Online would, I doubt, let this pass (nor would the BT) without comment. As for playing Rangers marking them as sectarian, that's ludicrous.