Republic of Ireland V Serbia - Wednesday, 5th March 2014 - Friendly

[Charlie Darwin]

Forde, Wilson, Dunne, Oshea, Coleman, whelan, McCarthy, Brady, Long/McClean, Hoolahan, keane.

That 11 is decent. But after that we fail miserably. Whats going to happen us after 2016? I think Long deserves a chance on the wing and run the channels, he isnt good enough to fox in the box or finish, but if he runs the channels he can get in behind and hooligan(yes) can pick him out, he then squares to robbie, and robbie gets a hat trick.

Seriously though i think long for mcclean is a good idea. Behind that we are very very light.

If you play Long out wide and Keane centre forward, then you have to deal with the problem of getting the ball to stick up front. Most teams who play one striker make it a strong guy who can hold up possession, whether they're playing on the deck or route one, like Ibra and Lewandowski. Teams like Barca and Man City (sometimes) are the exception, and I don't think we're in that class that we can play without a physically competitive striker.

[geysir]

Nonsense. The real fans are all still in their seats at Lansdowne Road, passionately debating the finer points of Keogh's positional awareness and McCarthy's stomach for the midfield battle with the diehards from YBIG. You wouldn't find any of them around here or downloading torrents.

Also amidst the showy flicking of stopwatches, measuring the speed of Forde's reflexes and the ever popular Wardy Watch ,
there was a more important factor to debate. There was a potential embarrassment factor in how was it to be explained that O'Neill was treading water already? After a hasty conference, it was agreed that the best way to explain this, was that the "Trap had all the luck" argument could be dug up and flogged one more time, brainy lot these folk.
But this time with the addendum, "Trap had all the luck as he had our best players available to him in their prime".
And O'Neill finding himself in this unenviable position, has to do with making the best out of a bad lot.

[Charlie Darwin]

Also amidst the showy flicking of stopwatches, measuring the speed of Forde's reflexes and the ever popular Wardy Watch ,
there was a more important factor to debate. There was a potential embarrassment factor in how was it to be explained that O'Neill was treading water already? After a hasty conference, it was agreed that the best way to explain this, was that the "Trap had all the luck" argument could be dug up and flogged one more time, brainy lot these folk.
But this time with the addendum, "Trap had all the luck as he had our best players available to him in their prime".
And O'Neill finding himself in this unenviable position, has to do with making the best out of a bad lot.

It will be interesting over the next few months to observe the mental gymnastics some have to indulge in once O'Neill's honeymoon period is over and he begins to leave out the causes celebré in favour of more reliable options. I'll give it about 12 months before they start hitting MON with charges of senility and Trap's era begins to be seen as something of a golden era. God forbid O'Neill takes us away from home and fails to get a result.

[Stuttgart88]

Shaker, do you think we're being harsh on Long? I don't.

Have we been harsh on Long for the x number of years quite a few of us have felt he leaves too many chances out there? It's a shame because otherwise he's a super player with a super attitude, and an even better accent.

I think a couple of things might still play into his hands though. If he is told he is the main man by MON he may feel less pressure, and if he gets one or two goals more might follow. I'd keep the faith because he's a cut above the others, bar Keane and Doyle.

I don't like the idea of him playing wide right. He did a good job once or twice before but other times looked laboured and ineffective.

[Crosby87]

The consensus of ex pat Irish here today seemed to be abject depression. They were talking about it in Butchers Block, the last Irish grocer in NYC.

[Charlie Darwin]

The consensus of ex pat Irish here today seemed to be abject depression. They were talking about it in Butchers Block, the last Irish grocer in NYC.

Are there many YBIG members in Butcher's Block? I wouldn't take them seriously otherwise.

[tricky_colour]

I though I would take a look at things statistically

Shots per goal

O'Suarez 5.27
Long 6.3
Coleman 5
Brady 2.56
Walters 10
O'Shea 2.2
Meyler 4.5
Ireland 2.1

I have not taken into account sub appearance as I was not sure how to deal with them, Stephen Ireland has a lot of them.
However there seems maybe to be a case for playing Ireland Brady and O Shea up front.

However Longs finishing is not that much worse then Suarez's.

Also you may have good looking stats simply becasue you never get into a position to miss!!

Just to throw in a few more:-
O'Messi 4.5
O'Ronaldo 10!!!!!!!!!! (the Irish Walters!!)
O'Rooney 5.8
O' Van Persie 5.8
O'Ronaldo 5.8 (stats from a different site)

So... for a striker Long's 6.3 is not that bad, and I don't think he takes penalties which squews(sp?) things a bit
however the ratio of about 5.8 seems to crop up a lot, not far off Longs 6.3 so you can
expect to see him miss 6 for every one he scores, and it is pretty unlikely he will improve on that
as he is 'up there with the best' or thereabouts.

Not too sure what to make of all that but I thought I would throw it out there,
Squarez gets a lot of goals because he has a lot of shots, but then LIverpool
concede a lot of goals too.

I should add that Walters stats and some others are just from this season so there is very high margin
of error there as there was with Ronaldo's first stat, I think he missed a few penalties.

One final thought, Long's one goal from 3 shots is actually brilliant!!!!!!!!!!

[SkStu]

I think people are being harsh on Long. Not sure why he's so maligned here. He is a smashing all round player who gets himself into great positions but misses some chances. Not perfect of course but he's an excellent starting option for us to have both now and when Keane is gone. Give him a break!

[DeLorean]

He's not being maligned... a perceived flaw in his game is being discussed rationally. Nobody is saying, "to hell with that Long, he couldn't finish his dinner". As far as I have seen, everybody agrees he's a smashing player but it's a shame he can't be a bit more clinical, as he's clearly got the ability to take more chances than he does.

[SwanVsDalton]

First and foremost, I haven't been beating Murphy's drum at all, unless you call linking articles about him "beating his drum".

Taken from a three minute forum search...

Daryl Murphy is streets ahead of Adam Rooney in terms of ability, as their respective experiences in The Championship have proven; and as I have said, 1 in 3 as a striker and experience of playing in several positions at the highest level stands him in good stead for another run at International level.

Why not just call up Daryl Murphy?

He can't possibly be any worse than Cox or Walters. He has Premier League experience and has spent the majority of his English career playing for Top 12 standard Championship teams. His goalscoring record is pretty good when you take into account that he has played on the wing in approximately half of his PL and Championship games. So if O'Neill doesn't play him as an orthodox striker, he won't look lost like Walters and Cox do when they play there.

I'm happy with his call-up. On form, athletic, strong, versatile and good in the air.

Can't see Keane, Doyle, Long, Stokes, Walters or Cox being dropped for Serbia to accommodate McGoldrick.

I would have said Cox a few months ago but he's playing at a good level at the moment.

Penny for the thoughts of Daryl Murphy.

Maybe you wouldn't call that drum-beating, but when a poster brings up a player repeatedly (from pre-squad announcement to during the match), then I think it's justified for anyone to say 'hmmm, I think TOWK rates Daryl Murphy'. It's was particularly noticeable to me because I don't rate him.

It's fine you know, if you like the player - no problem. But your posting goes beyond merely reporting what Murphy's saying.

As for the rest of your post, I don't agree but that's largely been gone over. In terms of movement, I think in most games Walters runs and constant availability for the ball allows Robbie/Shane/whoever to get an extra bit of space in behind. Walters likes to show short or wide, he (usually) is able to hold the ball up and give the other striker space to move into. I also think he's a mite smarter, as a player, than most give him credit for. If you disagree, well that's fine too.

I'd have been happy to see Stokes come on, and I'd agree with anyone who was a bit horrified by the prospect of Walters and Murphy together. Strange one. Maybe, as someone mentioned, this court case was affecting him.

On the Doyle front, I'd have him in the squad. Five strikers if we can afford it - Robbie, Shane, Doyle, Walters, Stokes. But there's a huge question mark as to whether he'll ever be effective as he once was. And if O'Neill and Keane decide to go forward with a one-up-front attack, then five strikers (and Doyle) in a squad might be bankrupt.

[SwanVsDalton]

He's not being maligned... a perceived flaw in his game is being discussed rationally. Nobody is saying, "to hell with that Long, he couldn't finish his dinner". As far as I have seen, everybody agrees he's a smashing player but it's a shame he can't be a bit more clinical, as he's clearly got the ability to take more chances that he does.

That attempted chip made me hope Roy gives him a boot up the hole. Strikers like Suarez, Van Persie and Robbie get to try things like that because they've banked up enough goodwill, but not Shane. Just put it in the net, think of chipping the keeper later. I'd love for someone to sit down our strikers (bar Robbie) and just say 'goals!' over-and-over again, Clockwork Orange style.

[Fixer82]

I think it may have been good for Long to miss those chances. Especially in a friendly. He might give himself the kick in the hole he needs to stop the fancy sh!t and just score the goal. I'm talking about the third chance more so. He showed great pace to get into the position for the second effort.

But had he scored that chip he might always go for the fancy dan stuff

[Fixer82]

One thing I think we definitely learned from the game is we don't have much strength in depth.
When Hoolahan went off there was nobody to replace him and his type of play. Meyler, Walters, Murphy, Keogh, Ward are all nearly good enough for international football but not quite I fear. All good grafters but don't have that extra special ability needed

[Stuttgart88]

I agree Fixer, especially with your appraisal of those players, though maybe it's worth mentioning that Gibson, Brady and Reid will be back (fingers crossed) for the proper stuff - and ideally the end of season games (Brady just had a serious groin op so probably not May/June, dunno about Gibson).

Dunne, O'Shea, SSL and probably Clark can enhance the centre of defence. Each is a cut above Keogh and Delaney probably is too. I trust MON with centre-backs. I expect Pearse may get another shot soon too.

Clark, a PL regular, is likely to be given a chance to claim the left back role.

Wilson might yet find a home in midfield if he is crowded out of the CB role. He looks like he likes being on the ball.

McGeady should play better with club games under his belt. Coleman is unlikely to be as sloppy as on Wednesday. Long's finishing won't get worse and Keane still has a big role to play.

I think there is still a case for optimism and also a little bit of wriggle room to tolerate an injury or two.

[paul_oshea]

I'm begining to wonder why O'Shea was brought in and Dunne not. A few snippets from O'Neill suggests he doesn't think Dunne is physically able for it anymore, perhaps we are all wrong and Dunne might not be recalled at all and hence why he was trying to see his best CB pairing. I hope thats not the case but I am a little confused as to what O'Neills thinking is here.

[Stuttgart88]

I genuinely think Dunne will figure early on if fit. He has played regularly at QPR (ever present?) and has a hard run of games coming up, hence his rest. I think MON will recognise that his experience and leadership ought to help us defend corners better and just generally enhance centre of defence. JOS is also important but had played a cup final on the Sunday.

Whilst Keogh didn't fluff his lines he did nothing to suggest he should be anything more than 4th or 5th choice by September.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think Dunne will play barring an emergency.

[back of the net]

Has there been any explanation by the management as to why our midfield were so deep and why were so poor in the second half?

Serbia are a very decent side - but christ we gave them all the in the world on the ball in the second half - shocking stuff

[tricky_colour]

Has there been any explanation by the management as to why our midfield were so deep and why were so poor in the second half?

Serbia are a very decent side - but christ we gave them all the in the world on the ball in the second half - shocking stuff

It could be that we started too fast amd the players were knackered out by the end.
I think the Irish rugby team had a habit of doing this which may have returned recently.

Or maybe they are not eating enough chips pre-match.

Long was having his chips on the pitch whcih tends to back that theory up.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Taken from a three minute forum search...









Maybe you wouldn't call that drum-beating, but when a poster brings up a player repeatedly (from pre-squad announcement to during the match), then I think it's justified for anyone to say 'hmmm, I think TOWK rates Daryl Murphy'. It's was particularly noticeable to me because I don't rate him.

It's fine you know, if you like the player - no problem. But your posting goes beyond merely reporting what Murphy's saying.

As for the rest of your post, I don't agree but that's largely been gone over. In terms of movement, I think in most games Walters runs and constant availability for the ball allows Robbie/Shane/whoever to get an extra bit of space in behind. Walters likes to show short or wide, he (usually) is able to hold the ball up and give the other striker space to move into. I also think he's a mite smarter, as a player, than most give him credit for. If you disagree, well that's fine too.

I'd have been happy to see Stokes come on, and I'd agree with anyone who was a bit horrified by the prospect of Walters and Murphy together. Strange one. Maybe, as someone mentioned, this court case was affecting him.

On the Doyle front, I'd have him in the squad. Five strikers if we can afford it - Robbie, Shane, Doyle, Walters, Stokes. But there's a huge question mark as to whether he'll ever be effective as he once was. And if O'Neill and Keane decide to go forward with a one-up-front attack, then five strikers (and Doyle) in a squad might be bankrupt.

One of those comments was in response to someone saying Adam Rooney is better than Daryl Murphy.

Another was about David McGoldrick. I said "Penny for the thoughts of" because he's an Irish striker and I wonder what he would think about his teammate (who plays in the same position) and someone who has tenuous links to our country declaring. Murph encouraged it so what does my opinion matter on that?

"Why not just call up Daryl Murphy?" God knows what context that comment came out of. I was probably rambling on about Cox or Walters and Murphy was incidental to the point.

The final Murphy related comment. Of course I'm going to comment on him and give my thoughts on his call-up. There were no other call-ups to debate.

So I'm not a fan of Murphy. But yes, he is hardly any worse then Keogh, Cox, Sammon, Walters, Folan or Best and he can play in two positions.

Walters. I just judge him on his lack of goals, inability to cross the ball, poor passing, poor heading, poor touch, poor pace and his making me smh when counter attacks go to waste because he isn't intuitive enough, show for the ball or offer pace.

He is a workhorse and it has its merits when used properly but he was starting games he shouldn't have been starting in positions he wasn't suited to.

He reminds me of Kilbane. He runs all day and the fans like him, and he can be hard for defenders to deal with because he never gives up but by God it has its limitations.

And I can believe I may be hard on Walters but people are similarly hard on Murphy and Sammon before him. Murphy only has the one start at the end of the day. Long too. People go on about his goalscoring rate but he has 11 in 44, which is a record of 1 in every 3 odd starts.

Yes he missed sitters and yes it's frustrating but his movement was excellence and his awareness and pace made those chances (along with Hoolahan). Would we get those chances with Keane? Be realistic. If Keane scores (and I'm not saying he won't) it will be tap ins.

And speaking of wasted chances, I can think of chances Keane should have put away in Slovakia and France directly off the top of my head.