The thing is you know its a one off with Coleman, with Ward you know you will get the same hoof time and again, he made one good read to cut out the piece of play from the free kick and tracked well tonight, but he offers nothing more or close towilson on the left - and wilson has proven to be no great shakes there. Ward will be judged on what Ward does, whether or not Coleman played well or not and as said many times Coleman was woeful both halves. Stutts lost a lot of credibility on this forum with his Coleman is Class statement, will take both a long time to recover from their performances. I mentioned in the past how coleman too often plays it out of tight positions but he always gets away with it, yesterday he didnt, how many times have we seen him do that and get out of trouble? Its a bit risky thing to be doing really, and yesterday he got caught out, but people would normally have said great play by coleman - its a very fine line isn't it?Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Last edited by paul_oshea; 06/03/2014 at 8:48 AM.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
Relax! It's early doors, we could of been 3 up in the 1st half, goals change games as they say.
In any game of football if you don't take your chances then you risk letting the other side back into the game.
That's why clubs pay big money for goal scorers.
At international level you have to use what's available, we don't have another Robbie Keane waiting in the wings so we will risk paying the price for not taking our chances in most games.
Like I said, let's just relax and see where the next few games takes us and then look ahead to the qualifiers.
We may all realise that Mr Trapattoni wasn't as bad as the Irish media tried to make out after all.
In MON we trust.
Not much effort, holding his head, after the Serb got round him easy enough for their first goal. Embarrassing
Forde (6) - Did pretty much all that was asked of him. Could have been embarrassed with that curling in-swinger but recovered brilliantly.
Coleman (3) - Really bad night all round. At fault for both goals and generally sloppy. Not the usual outlet going forward either.
Keogh (5) - Did some good things but a tough second half. Massive step up but the experience should do him good.
Wilson (7) - Showed signs of real quality and leadership. His best in green for some time.
Ward (5) - Unlike Keogh, there's no lack of experience here but no signs of improvement either. Mixes in the odd good moment but overall a liability.
McClean (6) - Great enthusiasm and effort, a shame he doesn't really have the skill set to match. Could be better utilised as a Stephen Hunt-type sub option.
Whelan (4) - I never have and doubt I ever will see what he contributes.
McCarthy (6) - Average enough by his standards but I disagree with Stutts in that he was one of the few looking to get on the ball, he shares the workload with Barry at Everton, he's a lone ranger for us.
Hoolahan (8) - Such a joy to watch, work-rate, skill, composure... just pure class. On another night where others did their jobs properly he would have had a goal and two assists against a fine side.
McGeady (4) - Really poor night for him, and I'm a big fan. Nothing really ran for him, even the odd good thing he did. Hasn't had a lot of game time so I'd cut him some slack.
Long (6) - Probably deserves a 7 but those misses were match deciding. The first one was a poor miss, the second one was tear your hair out stuff.
No point in rating the subs really but I thought they were chosen extremely poorly by O'Neill. Hauling McCarthy and Hoolahan off straight after going behind basically surrendered the match. Hoolahan didn't looked tired to me and definitely had another good 10-15 minutes in him at a crucial stage. We were lost from then on.
Last edited by DeLorean; 06/03/2014 at 8:44 AM.
Delorean there seems to be a metamorphis of these posters where they have an "agenda" they give decent analysis on one side and then completely ignore the other, they amass huge amount of posts and then disappear off the earth when they are "found out".
I know what you're all thinking. I never disappeared off the earth
Your earth being foot.ie obviously.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I thought we were excellent in the first half. There was a real desire about the lads and they got about the Serbs creating a number of chances. It was lovely seeing an Irish side stroke the ball around rather than hoofing it up the field constantly, although Forde does nearly always go with the big kick up to Long or Walters when he came on. To be fair, Long nearly always wins the headers.
Second half was awful from us. We were sloppy and gave away possession. The lads were back to the aimless balls that were going nowhere. On a number of such occasions, we weren't under massive pressure from the Serbs but the lads paniced.
A number of things to take from the game;
* Long can show glimpses of being a top player. His finish for the goal was world class and his general play was very good. He was an absolute handful for the Serbs. However, his two misses show why he plays for Hull rather than a top club. I bet if we spoke with West Brom fans they'd pretty much say the same things about Shane from his time there. The first miss could be put down to good goalkeeping to an extent, but the second miss was unforgiveable. I'm a big fan of Shane, but we're going to really miss Robbie when he retires.
* Wes is a beautiful footballer. He needs to be made the fulcrum of the team. He works tirelessly when he doesn't have the ball and when he does, he is a constant threat. He was at the heart of everything good that Ireland did, mostly in the first half. We were a much poorer side when he went off. He linked up well with Long.
* McCarthy is a player I rate massively, but while I've no doubt that he will become a top player for us, he is still struggling with international football. Maybe, I'm being unfair on the lad, but I've yet to see the James McCarthy of Everton perform for us on a consistent basis.
* We need to stop viewing these games as friendlies. With Fifa including friendlies in their seeding for qualifiers, wins and defeats in friendlies could be the difference between us being 3rd or 4th seeds. I think at the moment, we would be in the 5th batch. MON should have kept Long and Hoolahan and even McCarthy on the field longer with this in mind.
Steven Reid's take on things.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-30067629.html
I think he's a good columnist actually.
Yeah but if you watch Ward he doesn't hoof the ball to begin with. He's a pretty good defender who looks for the pass first. You're the only person who's pointed out Ward tracking the winger's run and snuffing out a very good chance for Serbia, but I'm not surprised nobody else did. He's been criticised endlessly in the past on here for following the man he's marking in spite of the fact it's his job.
Another thing, i dont want to open a can of worms, but everyone is lauding how we have had so many players come through from the LOI. I think its great, but is there a correlation here with how technicially ineffcient we lack and how the quality has diminished? If these lads were coming through at a young age testing themselves against the best at clubs across water they might not be lacking that skill proficieny that is seriously lacking in the team at the moment. It's not really something you can just pick up in your late teens/early 20s.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
Our best technical players - McGeady, McCarthy, Coleman, Hoolahan - came through outside of the English system. It's a gigantic leap to assume the LOI is the problem when the evidence suggests the English system is more to blame.
DeLorean i agree with that the game plan and tactics went out the window with the subs, we were playing as individuals no team cohesiveness at all after that. At times it appeared like we had 6 wingers and strikes on the field. Bad substitution management and tactical management by Keane and O'Neill maybe they didnt really care and were just using it as a showcase for individuals. Hopefully with a couple of weeks in the summer he can improve on this and get us playing as a team.
I agree with the ratings also bar McCarthy really, anonymous bar a few table tennis matches between him and the backs.
In MON we trust until the first time he doesnt select Sledge as a parter to o'shea/dunne/wilson!!
Anyone think O'neill could move o'shea out to the left to accommodate wilson and dunne in the middle or play wilson and o'shea together in the middle and not necessarily accommodate Dunne? I think he wants a ball playing CB and hence his persistence with playing Wilson in the CB role. I definitely think its the death knell for Sledge there.
Last edited by paul_oshea; 06/03/2014 at 9:52 AM.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
O'Shea isn't going anywhere near the left.
Are you the popular voice of this forum now?
Why did I rate Coleman in the first half? He showed a midfielder's desire for the ball and comfort on it. He never hid from the ball and was never afraid to pass the ball to an opponent in a tight space when any of our other defenders would have instinctively hoofed it. That's good play. Otherwise he sets a tone of fear of the ball, just like our midfielders often do. Someone needs composure. Richie Sadlier made the point recently that in our culture passing the ball to an opponent who is marked is considered a stitch up. It shouldn't be. I applaud any player who trusts his own and his teammates' ability to play football even if mistakes are made. Yesterday was just a dumb mistake. He looked like his drink was spiked at half time he was so switched off from the start.
He also made several good overlaps when attacking. He stood out for me as being a top quality player in the first half last night. Few others did.
Just because you don't agree doesn't mean I've lost a lot of credibility on this forum, it just means you don't agree. Your holier than thou tone across many issues of late is really irritating. It detracts from your own credibility.
I thought it was telling that he replaced Ward with Clark last night.
Was at the match last night. I have to say I thought Whelan was very good. He brought an air of calm to every situation that Meyler just doesn't have.
As was said already, once te subs were made the game was over. I thought the 4-4-1-1 with Hoolahan as number 10 was really working but once he was subbed off we had no more creativity.
Ward was awful. Yes he cut out a really goo ball with a good tracking run but then he gave a silly corner away and the Serbs were winning headers easily from the corners. I've said it before about Ward, he's not a left back. In the same way that O'Shea is not a left back. I'd hate to see O'Shea play left back again.
Keogh seemed a bit tentative but is a possible option for the future.
Long finished his goal well but Jesus did he mess up those two chances, especially the one in the second half.
By the time Murphy, Pilkington and Walters came on the game was over. The Serbians had taken absolute control of the game.
Robbie Keane lacks pace and has always been urine poor at one-on-ones against the goalkeeper. Remember his miss against France in Paris? At least Shane Long got a shot off. Seriously, every time Robbie Keane doesn't play we assign him mythical qualities. Keane is a goal-poacher in the box, yes, but he's no better than Shane Long in putting away the types of chances that came up last night.The first miss could be put down to good goalkeeping to an extent, but the second miss was unforgiveable. I'm a big fan of Shane, but we're going to really miss Robbie when he retires.
In fact, Shane Long has the pace to run on to Hoolahan's fantastic passes. And Shane Long has the pace to make Ivanovic look like a fool. Robbie Keane would not have had any of Long's chances, because he doesn't have the pace.
I'm not even convinced Long took his goal that well! Chest height near the keeper with no great pace. I'd bet the keeper was livid to get beaten the way he did.
I suspect many won't agree with this, but it was my instinctive reaction at the time.
So even his goals are rubbish now. We give our players so much stick and take down their confidence. We're becoming like the English media.
My first reaction too, though from a grainy gif.
Looked almost like he shinned it or something.
Super work to make the goal, it has to be said. But give Keane those three one-on-ones and see what happens...
Yeah he also curved the ball away from the center of the goal, conventionally you would have expected him to into the goal. In some ways his goal was the hardest of the 3 big chances he had.
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