Dolan hit by bottle leaving pitch

[the 12 th man]

an incident like this is a common assault and as such should be dealt with under the "public order act".

the problem is to identify the culprit as the missile probably came from a group of people.

sad individual

[Macy]

Can you imagine any league in the world tolerating a situation where the manager of a club, who has just been sent off for attempting battery on the pitch, then goes and makes antagonistic gestures to the visiting fans on the way to the dressingroom? If this league was ever properly run, both these slimey creeps would have been banned long ago.

I'm sure that he was getting absolutely no abusive comments from any of the Cork fans present? IMO none of this players making hand gestures in anything new, what is the moralistic outrage that follows from the very fans that were dishing out the verbals...

Anyone caught throwing bottles at people on the pitch should be banned, once they've had due process (and preferably after being convicted by the courts). However, life bans is going too far imo, 3-5 year ban for a first offence.

[patsh]

I'm sure that he was getting absolutely no abusive comments from any of the Cork fans present? IMO none of this players making hand gestures in anything new, what is the moralistic outrage that follows from the very fans that were dishing out the verbals....

Not the point and you know that. If I, or any other supporter deliberately went over to a player and give him the fingers, I'd be collared fairly sharpish by stewards and/or Gardai. BTW, I don't have any "moralistic outrage" about Reynolds, I accept that he is lowlife little scumbag.

Anyone caught throwing bottles at people on the pitch should be banned, once they've had due process (and preferably after being convicted by the courts). However, life bans is going too far imo, 3-5 year ban for a first offence.

Nothing ever seems to happen though. Dolan, leaving aside what you might think of him, has been assulted a few times this season already, and not a single thing has been done about any of the incidents. This would not be tolerated anywhere, but it is just ignored and/or laughed off here.

[Macy]

Not the point and you know that. If I, or any other supporter deliberately went over to a player and give him the fingers, I'd be collared fairly sharpish by stewards and/or Gardai. BTW, I don't have any "moralistic outrage" about Reynolds, I accept that he is lowlife little scumbag.

No I do think it is the point, and have said so on many occasions (even when it's been giving Town fans the finger). Fans can dish out abuse and can't take it, and I've read too many threads since Reynolds left you lot about what songs/abuse you were going to give him to believe he was getting alot of abuse. On going over to a player and giving them the finger, I really don't think anyone would do anything - happens along the touchline in every game up and down the country every weekend.

[nice one sham]

reynolds is a scumbag pure and simple. it was just aswell that some of the city fans who were trying to get at him over it didnt get near him as that might have overshadwed his own behaviour. this thug should get a ban for the cup final as he was trying to wind up the city fans in what was already a hostile atmosphere.

i also heard in another thread that dan connor spat at the lads who were behind the goal. are they all thugs down in waterford, is this what reynolds teachs them in training?

[patsh]

No I do think it is the point, and have said so on many occasions (even when it's been giving Town fans the finger). Fans can dish out abuse and can't take it, and I've read too many threads since Reynolds left you lot about what songs/abuse you were going to give him to believe he was getting alot of abuse. On going over to a player and giving them the finger, I really don't think anyone would do anything - happens along the touchline in every game up and down the country every weekend.

It has nothing to do with being able to give or take it.

There is a vast difference between fans shouting and screaming abuse on the sidelines and the manager of a club walking over to a group of opposing fans and making gestures to knowingly incite them.
If I go on to the pitch, I get arrested.
If a player goes over to taunt fans, then he must face some consequences.

Anyone who knowingly acts in such a way as to possibly provoke a breakdown in public order deserves to be punished. Crowds, no matter whether they are shouting abuse or support, make a lot of noise, but by and large, it remains just that, noise.
A player/manager, being the focus of attention, can easily incite the same crowd by his actions.
If you cannot see the difference, you are a fool. (which, btw, I don't think you are)

[wablue]

**** sake

Trust cork to ****ing overate everything that happens

[SÓC]

Nothing ever seems to happen though. Dolan, leaving aside what you might think of him, has been assulted a few times this season already, and not a single thing has been done about any of the incidents. This would not be tolerated anywhere, but it is just ignored and/or laughed off here.

Sorry Patsh but you are wrong.

Something was done about it.

Shelbourne publically encouraged who ever threw stuff at Dolan at Tolka.

Plus they let the fellas who did it run off the pitch without being stopped once. Rotten from the Chairman down

[Colm]

Nothing ever seems to happen though. Dolan, leaving aside what you might think of him, has been assulted a few times this season already, and not a single thing has been done about any of the incidents. This would not be tolerated anywhere, but it is just ignored and/or laughed off here.

I think having a go at Dolan is almost encouraged by a lot of other clubs.
The fact that he speaks his mind and has the best managerial job in Ireland means that he upsets a lot of the rival Dublin clubs and some of the small bogger clubs.

Waterford will take no action because they think it's alright, in fact I think I read on another forum that when a City fan rang WUFC up to complain on Saturday morning he was told that it was actually someone in the City crowd who threw the bottle. In all fairness, surely the simpletons could have come up with a better excuse than that.

As Sean said, Ollie Byrne actually came out and condoned the throwing of water balloons and bottles at Dolan, saying something like it was acceptable because Dolan is "controversial"! But sure what more would you expect from a man who was fighting with City fans in the Tolka bar last season and was actively encouraging Shels fans to taunt City fans outside the horseshoe earlier in the season.

We're fighting a losing battle against goons like Ollie Byrne who certainly have it in for Pat Dolan and maybe for our club as a whole!

[NY Hoop]

[QUOTE=patsh]I'm not claiming that CCFC are a perfect club, and we have had our fair share of little scumbags, but as far as I know, there has NEVER been an incident where a visiting manager has been attacked/struck/spat on at a game in the Cross.

Em what about the clown who tried to assault Robert Forde when you lot lost to kilkenny in the cup a few years back. Wasnt he meant to be involved in the club somehow? Was he barred?

And fairplayboy what about the bravehearts who ran all the way from the shed last season to try and "sort us out"?

Before this turns into the usual anti Rovers drivel I'm saying EVERY club with a following has a few loons. But I still hope Reynolds lifts the Cup sunday.

KOH

[patsh]

[QUOTE=NY Hoop]

I'm not claiming that CCFC are a perfect club, and we have had our fair share of little scumbags, but as far as I know, there has NEVER been an incident where a visiting manager has been attacked/struck/spat on at a game in the Cross.

Em what about the clown who tried to assault Robert Forde when you lot lost to kilkenny in the cup a few years back. Wasnt he meant to be involved in the club somehow? Was he barred?

And fairplayboy what about the bravehearts who ran all the way from the shed last season to try and "sort us out"?

Before this turns into the usual anti Rovers drivel I'm saying EVERY club with a following has a few loons. But I still hope Reynolds lifts the Cup sunday.

KOH

I honestly don't remember any incident with Forde, and as I said "as far as I know". If it happened, I hope the guy was barred. As for the idiots who ran around the Cross last season, I certainly do not condone that.
The vast majority of fans at all clubs, while probably being very passionate and well able to hurl the abuse, leave it at that and wouldn't get involved in anything more.
However, if Gareth Farrelly came over to Rovers fans in Dalyer, having being sent off for trying to punch Grant, and gave them the fingers and abuse, you would all be on screaming provocation and justifying any reaction.

[tiktok]

Em what about the clown who tried to assault Robert Forde when you lot lost to kilkenny in the cup a few years back. Wasnt he meant to be involved in the club somehow? Was he barred?

He had to resign his position at the club if memory serves, not sure if he served a ban though.

[NY Hoop]

However, if Gareth Farrelly came over to Rovers fans in Dalyer, having being sent off for trying to punch Grant, and gave them the fingers and abuse, you would all be on screaming provocation and justifying any reaction.[/QUOTE]

We would be cheering if he decked tony grant

It all comes down to the lack of segregation. Truly the only place in the league that has segregation is dalymoan on the far side. In longford saturday we were meant to be in the corner but you could wonder over to the main stand anytime. In cark you can pay in at the shed end with the home fans and walk around the ground.

Now I'm not blaming clubs here because the stewards are the dumbest species besides b**z fans but the league MUST insist on a Visiting Supporters end like all other leagues.

KOH

[Gary]

Turners X has a fully segregated away fans section. However, I do feel that away fans should buy tickets and gain entry through the St Annes End, as as NY Hoop said, an away fan can quite easily saunter into the Shed end, and cause all the trouble he wants!

[NY Hoop]

Turners X has a fully segregated away fans section. However, I do feel that away fans should buy tickets and gain entry through the St Annes End, as as NY Hoop said, an away fan can quite easily saunter into the Shed end, and cause all the trouble he wants!

Well I didnt mean going into the shed! But I feel that the visiting supporters should be in 1 section behind the other goal. There are 5 sections there. Have 2 for away fans, block off 1 altogether and make sure they enter and exit at that end.

Just a suggestion.

KOH

[Dricky]

Well I didnt mean going into the shed! But I feel that the visiting supporters should be in 1 section behind the other goal. There are 5 sections there. Have 2 for away fans, block off 1 altogether and make sure they enter and exit at that end.

Just a suggestion.

KOH

Just provoking

[LFC in Exile]

If I go on to the pitch, I get arrested.
If a player goes over to taunt fans, then he must face some consequences.

Anyone who knowingly acts in such a way as to possibly provoke a breakdown in public order deserves to be punished. Crowds, no matter whether they are shouting abuse or support, make a lot of noise, but by and large, it remains just that, noise.
A player/manager, being the focus of attention, can easily incite the same crowd by his actions.

I do think Macy makes a good point about the reaction of fans when players gesture at them. Patsh, it is not quite the same to equate what Reynolds did with a fan going onto the pitch to gesture at a player. From what I understand of the incident Reynolds gave the finger to a group (if not all) Cork fans. He shouldn't have done it - he should get a ban but I have been at the Cross and heard the abuse players (and Reynolds) gets. I saw Bruton gesturing at fans earlier this season and Reynolds was kissing his Waterford crest to make a point to Cork fans.

Why is a crowd shouting abuse and making the same gesture that Reynolds made at opposing fans not incitement but Reynolds (after receiving loads of abuse) is incitement? I am not in the slightest condoning it - but I am questioning the sense of moral outrage expressed by fans when an opposition manager/player makes one gesture while the fans can hurl abuse and gestures at players and opposing fans all the time - and sometimes even feel it is their right. And you don't need to go onto the pitch to get at players - I've seen plenty of abuse of players in the Cross while they are taking corners etc e.g. Ollie Cahill - and these players have stuff said to them and gestures made to them that are appalling.

If that is the case then it is hard to swallow the argument that Reynolds or any other player incites a crowd with one gesture.

As far as the bottle throwing - that is inexcusable and if the culprit can be identified he or she should be prevented from attending eL matches again.

[patsh]

I do think Macy makes a good point about the reaction of fans when players gesture at them. Patsh, it is not quite the same to equate what Reynolds did with a fan going onto the pitch to gesture at a player. .

Its exactly the same thing. If i go onto the area considered to be the playing area, I get arrested. If a player comes over to the fans area, he should pay the penalty.

From what I understand of the incident Reynolds gave the finger to a group (if not all) Cork fans. He shouldn't have done it - he should get a ban but I have been at the Cross and heard the abuse players (and Reynolds) gets. I saw Bruton gesturing at fans earlier this season and Reynolds was kissing his Waterford crest to make a point to Cork fans.

Why is a crowd shouting abuse and making the same gesture that Reynolds made at opposing fans not incitement but Reynolds (after receiving loads of abuse) is incitement? I am not in the slightest condoning it - but I am questioning the sense of moral outrage expressed by fans when an opposition manager/player makes one gesture while the fans can hurl abuse and gestures at players and opposing fans all the time - and sometimes even feel it is their right. And you don't need to go onto the pitch to get at players - I've seen plenty of abuse of players in the Cross while they are taking corners etc e.g. Ollie Cahill - and these players have stuff said to them and gestures made to them that are appalling.

If that is the case then it is hard to swallow the argument that Reynolds or any other player incites a crowd with one gesture.

Again this is a case of "you can give but not take it".
Are the Gardai going to arrest or stewards throw out 90% of fans at a game?
No, while it may be ott a lot of the time, abuse from the crowd happoens all the time.
However, one person be it the opposing manager, player or fan, going up to a crowd and gesturing in a provocative manner, its that person who is responsible for the incitement, not the crowd. Be it from a speaker on a platform or a player coming off the pitch, I think you will find that a "person" deliberately riles up a crowd will be held responsible by the Gardai/courts. Thats the way it is.

Again, I have no time for/or feel any "moral outrage" about this. I think Reynolds is a fine player, but his conduct and manner show him to be a scut and a thug. Thats a simple fact, I'm not outraged by it.

There is getting to be a more vicious edge to a lot of games now, which I dislike and think is a very bad trend. However, disicipline must start from the top down. Refereeing performances must be improved dramatically which would increase respect towards the refs from players and fans alike, clamping down severely on the antics of certain club secrataries and club managers, a swift, appropriate reaction from properly trained and interested stewards will all help. Fans have a responsibilty too, probably most, but they must be given the proper lead.

[Éanna]

Em what about the clown who tried to assault Robert Forde when you lot lost to kilkenny in the cup a few years back. Wasnt he meant to be involved in the club somehow? Was he barred?

he was involved in the club and he resigned immediately afterwards. and the assault involved him throwing a ball at the clown.

patsh is right in what he says. If reynolds had walked off the pitch kissing his crest, no harm done, but that he went out of his way to make a gesture at city fans was out of order. Look what Ollie Cahill does- when shels score, he always tries to celebrate in front of the Shed, can't really blame him for that with the grief he gets. the point is what reynolds did could have caused hassle, and he should have more sense.

NYHOOP, your idea for the st annes end is a good one, and when clubs bring large numbers down, its often opened.

[eoinh]

Personally I wouldn't get that upset about gestures, sticks and stones and all that, but I would expect the FAI to get very upset indeed.

i dont think the FAI cares to be honest. They are just as bad. Today you had Fran Rooney apologising to the IFA over the joke he made.