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Thread: Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

  1. #2181
    Seasoned Pro jbyrne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    I saw bits of it myself, and I'd agree with that. I stand by my statement that their recent record isn't much different to ours - only one win in the last 12 months and that was a friendly against South Korea in March. Granted, they had a five game winning streak before that, but three of those were against New Zealand, Azerbaijan and San Marino. The others were a 2-0 win against Norway, and an admittedly impressive 2-0 win against the Czech Republic
    yes, would agree with all that although the Czechs are in a bigger mess than us at the moment.... hammered 5-1 against russia last night.

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    First Team Fixer82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid View Post
    Artur is a bit precious isn't he - since when did an assistant football manager call the shots. Players never take heed of what the assistant thinks. Roy had a go off Walters as well - Walters told him where to go. Mountain out of a molehill. Artur should have shown up last week - ridiculous that he didn't.
    You would like to think a player would be turning up to prove the assistant manager wrong.
    But perhaps there’s more to it.
    Disappointing how Keane gets so personal.
    Perhaps Harry has stuff going on at home and is just thinking ‘I don’t need this ****.’ He’s had a heavy couple of years and those things don’t disappear overnight.

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  4. #2183
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid View Post
    Artur is a bit precious isn't he - since when did an assistant football manager call the shots. Players never take heed of what the assistant thinks. Roy had a go off Walters as well - Walters told him where to go. Mountain out of a molehill. Artur should have shown up last week - ridiculous that he didn't.
    Harsh I think.

    If the FAI medical team are telling a player not to train, the assistant manager has no business criticising/bollocking them over it.

    And if players never take heed of what an assistant thinks, you have to wonder what the assistant is doing there.

    In this case, I think you could actually ask that question of both the manager and the assistant - what do they actually do there? We hear about what they don't do...so what do they do?

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  6. #2184
    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid View Post
    Artur is a bit precious isn't he - since when did an assistant football manager call the shots. Players never take heed of what the assistant thinks. Roy had a go off Walters as well - Walters told him where to go. Mountain out of a molehill. Artur should have shown up last week - ridiculous that he didn't.
    Never? I'd say they do, particularly one that's as involved in the management setup as Keane is. I can't remember any other assistant taking a press conference, I think Tardelli took one with Brady when Trapattoni was taken to hospital, but certainly not as often as Keane has.

    I've worked with people who could take harsh criticism, and with people who needed a bit more of the arm around the shoulder, you can do better, type approach, and the best managers were the ones who knew what approach to use on each employee. Keane, by contrast, seems to have one approach that he uses on everyone. If any manager spoke to me the way he spoke to Ward, I'd have reported him and expected severe consequences.
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    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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  9. #2186
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    Liam Brady wouldn't tolerate Keane's verbals (among other criticisms):

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8532111.html

    And Miguel Delaney quotes Keane saying he regrets his old school "play through injury" approach, and saying that in hindsight players like Van Nistelrooy were right not to play when not 100%.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8532111.html
    Last edited by Stuttgart88; 11/09/2018 at 1:26 PM.

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    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    Harsh I think.

    If the FAI medical team are telling a player not to train, the assistant manager has no business criticising/bollocking them over it.

    And if players never take heed of what an assistant thinks, you have to wonder what the assistant is doing there.

    In this case, I think you could actually ask that question of both the manager and the assistant - what do they actually do there? We hear about what they don't do...so what do they do?
    True, but at the end of the day Keane isn't the boss - he can get hot under the collar all he wants but he is not calling the shots - Artur should have told him to take it up with the Manager if he had a problem - I don't see it as a quitting issue. If Martin was happy with him then that is all that matters.

    As for Keane's role - Brian Kerr gave a good description on it last night on TV Virgin Media BE Sport 3 (or whatever the hell the channel is called now). Keane should be taking most of the training, scouting, giving his opinion on personnel on tactics when asked etc. He can voice is displeasure if he wants but the buck stops with O'Neill, which leads me to think that there is more to this - otherwise Artur needs to puff his chest out and get on with it. You either want to play for your country or not.
    Last edited by Real ale Madrid; 11/09/2018 at 1:53 PM.
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    Its not as if Roy Keane is a master tactician . He is more trouble than his worth and god knows Martin O’ Neill needs a John Robertson .

    O’Neill without John Robertson ain’t al that anyway .

    Is O’Neill just to set in his ways ? Living off the past .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Liam Brady wouldn't tolerate Keane's verbals (among other criticisms):

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8532111.html

    And Miguel Delaney quotes Keane saying he regrets his old school "play through injury" approach, and saying that in hindsight players like Van Nistelrooy were right not to play when not 100%.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8532111.html
    Probably you intended to post a link to the article quoting Brady in the Indo

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  14. #2190
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    Didn't the Indo say last week that Rice will make an announcement over his international future today? The wait is on.

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    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    That was the rumour on Twitter last week

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Liam Brady wouldn't tolerate Keane's verbals (among other criticisms):

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8532111.html

    And Miguel Delaney quotes Keane saying he regrets his old school "play through injury" approach, and saying that in hindsight players like Van Nistelrooy were right not to play when not 100%.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8532111.html
    Did Van Nistelrooy dodge friendlies ?
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    We, or probably most of us, know Keane can be an utter profane slob, but over recent days the person i'm most disappointed in is O'Neill. Maybe the signs were there along but it never dawned on me to question his quality of character. Since Ward's very vivid audio has entered the public domain (with a bullet), his public actions have been to support Keane 100% and belittle Arter for not returning.
    In my perspective this is shameful as he has equal care of duty to all, players and staff, not just the cosy triumvirate
    Not only do we have a manager who just cannot coach a team effectively within the international framework but one who belittles players who have been profanely abused by his management
    . And in mumbling repeatedly about how it was for him in distant European exploits, he has spectacularly failed to grasp the essentials of the issue.
    A crummy draw in Poland does not even have a coat of paint gloss over effect.

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    According to O’Neill, it didn’t quite go down the way Ward told it. There’s far more going on in the background than we will ever know.
    Judging by the reaction of players against Poland, I’m more hopeful than before.
    I imagine O’Neill will deal with this properly in private while backing his assistant publicly.
    Folding my way into the big money!!!

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  21. #2195
    Seasoned Pro jbyrne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    and belittle Arter for not returning.
    i didn't see or hear any MON quotes belittling arter in this regard.
    do you have any?

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    In fairness to O"neill he said he "respected Arter decision , but did not agree with it"

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    Mick McCarthy says what a lot of us are thinking: https://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/so...up-870788.html
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbyrne View Post
    i didn't see or hear any MON quotes belittling arter in this regard.
    do you have any?
    I don't know about quotes but that was the distinct tone of much of O'Neill's reply to the Ward Tapes. It was blatant, caustic - mildly disguised.
    He went on for ages giving 100% fulsome extravagant praise to Keane, on the other hand he questioned whether the row with Keane was the full reason for Harry's decision, yet he admitted that his 2nd in command had not tried to reconcile the issue with Arter. O'Neill had not even followed up on that row which he had been made aware of, he couldn't be bothered, for some reason or another to make sure that one key member of the team was offered the respect of fair process due to him by management.

    Then, in this stage managed interview with Meyler beside him (Meyler's status suitably being elevated from non-player to key non-player), O'Neill blithely referred to a row he had with Meyler, as if that compared with what went down between Keane and Arter. He was implying that Meyler seems alright so why not Harry? something must be defective with Harry? And in another interview he referred to Walters turning up, so why not Harry.

    I got the clear impression that O'Neill supported Keane 100% in everything and it was up to the player to get over the rumpus and if his assistant didn't bother to make amends with Arter, so what, it was still the player's defect and Keane's use of foul belittling abuse is fair game, no apology is needed afterwards.

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    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    On Off The Ball earlier, Kilbane shut down the criticism by Richie McCormack of O'Neill's recent mentions of his European Cup medals brilliantly.

    <EDIT>

    The clip is here: http://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Off...rpool_evolving
    McCormack: I don't know if you know this. Martin O'Neill, during his playing career, won two European Cups. So he might have a thing or two to teach you in the dressing room
    Kilbane: Rich, will you stop, honestly.
    McCormack: Were you aware of that? Like, he hides his light under a bushel, does Martin O'Neill. Two European Cups. Imagine the knowledge he can impart tomorrow in the dressing room as he tries to send you out with a fire in your belly
    Kilbane: Yeah, it's two more than me, he played a lot more at that level than I can ever dream of, so I'd look at it like that Richie
    McCormack: If only he didn't keep it so quiet
    Fair play to Kilbane for not rising to the bait.
    Last edited by tetsujin1979; 25/09/2018 at 11:09 AM.
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