Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

**jbyrne** · 23/10/2018, 2:23 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

A Scotland side you were borderline in awe of for a while (in comparison to ourselves)?

It's unquestionably the best Welsh side ever too, European semi finalists. I think finishing ahead of them with what is generally perceived as one of our worst group of players in decades is a big enough achievement.

Germany and Poland were better than us. Finishing third in that group meets the minimum requirement. Beating Bosnia in the playoff exceeds the minimum requirement. Making the knockouts of the tournament itself is pretty much dreamland. Yes, third place finishes being rewarded was clearly a major advantage for O'Neill over previous managers, but I wasn't comparing him to previous managers. If I was I could argue the point that they generally had much better players anyway.

We also outperformed/outqualified Bosnia, Austria and Sweden along the way too.

The major high points were the wins over Germany & Italy, along with wins in Vienna and Cardiff and obviously beating Bosnia to secure qualification. You could throw in the late equaliser in Gelsenkirchen too. That is not a shabby list by any means over the period of two campaigns.

also, two of the six third placed teams didn't make it through to the last 16 of the euros.
a lot of sense in your post above. yes, the last 12 months have not been great but the darkest of the night is just before the dawn... as they say!

**Stuttgart88** · 23/10/2018, 7:24 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

A Scotland side you were borderline in awe of for a while (in comparison to ourselves)?

It's unquestionably the best Welsh side ever too, European semi finalists. I think finishing ahead of them with what is generally perceived as one of our worst group of players in decades is a big enough achievement.

Germany and Poland were better than us. Finishing third in that group meets the minimum requirement. Beating Bosnia in the playoff exceeds the minimum requirement. Making the knockouts of the tournament itself is pretty much dreamland. Yes, third place finishes being rewarded was clearly a major advantage for O'Neill over previous managers, but I wasn't comparing him to previous managers. If I was I could argue the point that they generally had much better players anyway.

We also outperformed/outqualified Bosnia, Austria and Sweden along the way too.

The major high points were the wins over Germany & Italy, along with wins in Vienna and Cardiff and obviously beating Bosnia to secure qualification. You could throw in the late equaliser in Gelsenkirchen too. That is not a shabby list by any means over the period of two campaigns.

Yeah, I agree largely. Scotland were actually quite good for Strachan's first 18 months or so. But we were till lucky 3rd place qualified!

O'Neill definitely had some great moments, more than most, but there's a lot I just don't like about him (anymore - I used to think he was the bees knees) and when results were good they compensated for that. They don't now and I think he is very lucky to be still in this job, particularly when it seemed he wasn't even that keen on it himself last year.

**Stuttgart88** · 23/10/2018, 7:25 PM

Originally Posted by jbyrne

also, two of the six third placed teams didn't make it through to the last 16 of the euros.
a lot of sense in your post above. yes, the last 12 months have not been great but the darkest of the night is just before the dawn... as they say!

I hope you're right!

**geysir** · 23/10/2018, 10:01 PM

Where I bide, the darkest of the night is just followed by more darkness.

If I was to draw a parallel with us now and some place in O'Neill's career it would be with his last job at Sunderland. He went from a good beginning to that losing streak, couldn't buy a win, manager O'Neill was having no impact, yet he was totally convinced that he could save Sunderland from relegation and still does to this day remain absolutely convinced of that. As everybody knows he was sacked, some nutcase manager was brought in and even he could bring about the highly improbable and save Sunderland from the drop.
I'd guess that many observers of Sunderland's plight at that time had little confidence in O'Neill's bravado.

**Charlie Darwin** · 23/10/2018, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Yeah, I agree largely. Scotland were actually quite good for Strachan's first 18 months or so. But we were till lucky 3rd place qualified!

O'Neill definitely had some great moments, more than most, but there's a lot I just don't like about him (anymore - I used to think he was the bees knees) and when results were good they compensated for that. They don't now and I think he is very lucky to be still in this job, particularly when it seemed he wasn't even that keen on it himself last year.

If only you'd listened to me at the time when I told you Scotland always choke.

**CraftyToePoke** · 23/10/2018, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Where I bide, the darkest of the night is just followed by more darkness.

If I was to draw a parallel with us now and some place in O'Neill's career it would be with his last job at Sunderland. He went from a good beginning to that losing streak, couldn't buy a win, manager O'Neill was having no impact, yet he was totally convinced that he could save Sunderland from relegation and still does to this day remain absolutely convinced of that. As everybody knows he was sacked, some nutcase manager was brought in and even he could bring about the highly improbable and save Sunderland from the drop.
I'd guess that many observers of Sunderland's plight at that time had little confidence in O'Neill's bravado.

It is bravado, and its also boll*x. When we won in Vienna to top the group, he couldn't talk us down enough, everyone should remember that. We consequently shrivelled and shrunk and that is still in process. All that ensuing campaign he talked us down, but now suddenly we are going to do the business in a group he doesn't even know his opponent yet ?? Balls. Self preservation and insulting peoples intelligence.

**DeLorean** · 24/10/2018, 7:46 AM

Totally. Hopefully it works though.

**SkStu** · 28/10/2018, 1:14 PM

https://www.the42.ie/martin-oneill-r...urce=shortlink

Ego and insecurity have followed Martin O'Neill around for his entire career.

For the Republic of Ireland boss, the smugness isn’t a good look when so much negativity currently surrounds the Irish side.

**Diggs246** · 28/10/2018, 2:48 PM

That article wont help his insecurity!

**seanfhear** · 28/10/2018, 2:53 PM

Could Mick McCarthy give some pointers to Roy Keane in his assistant coach role i.e. some actual coaching .

**rebelmusic** · 31/10/2018, 6:13 PM

Put together the below table...the columns are the debuts of players between 17 and 21 per year...it's disturbing how few U22 players have debuted under Trap and Mon

Years is rounded off
Its really disturbing...arghr

Manager	Career	Matches	Players Debuted	Years as Manager
Steve Staunton	2006–2007	17	11	2
Mick McCarthy	1996–2002	68	15	6
Brian Kerr	2003–2005	33	7	3
Martin O'Neill	2013–	51	3	6
Giovanni Trapattoni	2008–2013	64	6	5

**Olé Olé** · 06/11/2018, 7:43 AM

Second Captains and Off The Ball both went heavy on the Stephen Kenny for Ireland theme yesterday. David Sneyd and Gary Breen were in favour of it. Very interesting view from Dan McDonnell who reckons that this Euro campaign might come too soon and that Kenny fancies a good run in Europe next season due to superior seeding so the long term approach could and perhaps should be Kenny.

**Fixer82** · 06/11/2018, 8:08 PM

Who's the other young player O'Neill debuted?

**pineapple stu** · 06/11/2018, 8:29 PM

Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Second Captains and Off The Ball both went heavy on the Stephen Kenny for Ireland theme yesterday. David Sneyd and Gary Breen were in favour of it. Very interesting view from Dan McDonnell who reckons that this Euro campaign might come too soon and that Kenny fancies a good run in Europe next season due to superior seeding so the long term approach could and perhaps should be Kenny.

I find it interesting that there's been so much talk about "the next Ireland manager" lately; marks a clear public perception shift I think.

Possible Kenny could be best served coming in as U21 manager for a couple of years before moving up to the seniors, just to get used to the fold. Nothing against him particularly; but it's something that's worked at other countries - Southgate at England, Löw at Germany (who was assistant manager, not 21s manager, but same idea) - and it'd fit in with King seemingly not having his contract renewed while we can't afford to sack MON until after the upcoming qualifying campaign.

**seanfhear** · 06/11/2018, 9:45 PM

Not much demand for Roy Keane by any clubs . Could this gig be his last hurrah at coaching / managing ?

**irishfan86** · 06/11/2018, 9:56 PM

Originally Posted by seanfhear

Not much demand for Roy Keane by any clubs . Could this gig be his last hurrah at coaching / managing ?

Given his reputation as a player, he will have opportunities, at least as an assistant. They may not be the sexiest, but there will be opportunities -- see the reports during the last campaign about Israel's interest.

**rebelmusic** · 07/11/2018, 1:41 AM

Originally Posted by Fixer82

Who's the other young player O'Neill debuted?

Your looking at the wrong column. He debuted 3

**Olé Olé** · 07/11/2018, 7:09 AM

Was looking at MON's Wikipedia page. He's on course to spending the most time he has in any managerial role in his career with Ireland. He did 5 years at Wycombe, Leicester and Celtic and is in his 5th year with us. Interesting.