Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

[tricky_colour]

Yes I remember the poppy wars when the poppies were getting bigger and more elaborate, in a kind of beat you neighbor
kind of thing, now is seems to have gone into reverse where the competition is to wear the smallest poppy imaginable.

I think Rod Stewart was doing something last year, I think he is a big supporter of the forces, royal British legion.


He was on the graham norton show with no obvious red poppy when everyone else had one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1Y01_jEkkA

Personally I don't wear one, least not because any values they might have though they were fighting for
have long been consigned to the dustbin so they basically fought to produce the grossly unfair corrupt and unequal
society we now live in.
They would have been better off turning their guns on their own officers, the likes of thicko playboy Prince Harry
who spent his time playing strip pool with hookers in the USA whilst them men he 'lead' were dodging the roadside
bombs in Afghanistan.

[Fixer82]

At its core, the poppy is meant to be a symbol of peace.
It has, however, become quite the opposite

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yes I remember the poppy wars when the poppies were getting bigger and more elaborate, in a kind of beat you neighbor
kind of thing, now is seems to have gone into reverse where the competition is to wear the smallest poppy imaginable.

I think Rod Stewart was doing something last year, I think he is a big supporter of the forces, royal British legion.


He was on the graham norton show with no obvious red poppy when everyone else had one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1Y01_jEkkA

Personally I don't wear one, least not because any values they might have though they were fighting for
have long been consigned to the dustbin so they basically fought to produce the grossly unfair corrupt and unequal
society we now live in.
They would have been better off turning their guns on their own officers, the likes of thicko playboy Prince Harry
who spent his time playing strip pool with hookers in the USA whilst them men he 'lead' were dodging the roadside
bombs in Afghanistan.

Hmm, Rod being a bit of a Tim was probably avoiding for his own political reasons. Don't know about any Forces connection, but like any individual it's down to personal choice at the end of the day.

That said, as with the likes of MO'N & RMK, even every single non-entity is supposed to wear one on Brit.TV from mid-October onwards where it's the most over-exposed propaganda tool ever.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm a proud Irishman. I live and work in England. England has given me a good lifestyle. My wife is English and my kids are half-English.

And I wear a poppy. I see no reason whatsoever why Roy and Martin shouldn't wear one either.

That's completely understandable and I respect your viewpoint but personally I wouldn't wear one out of respect for my countrymen.

[tricky_colour]

Hmm, Rod being a bit of a Tim was probably avoiding for his own political reasons. Don't know about any Forces connection, but like any individual it's down to personal choice at the end of the day.

That said, as with the likes of MO'N & RMK, even every single non-entity is supposed to wear one on Brit.TV from mid-October onwards where it's the most over-exposed propaganda tool ever.

Oh I might be wrong on that, I though he supported the royal british legion for some reason but it may just be that he sang at their do last year, might of got confuse, happens occasionally lol hic!!!

[ArdeeBhoy]

He probably got co-opted like most celebs do. And he might just remember post-war rationing...

[ArdeeBhoy]

The country responds to the RMK appointment.
http://balls.ie/football/10-ways-iri...act-roy-keane/

[DannyInvincible]

Bit disappointing seeing them both wear the poppy but that's for another thread/forum.

Whether they were pressured into wearing poppies or donned them voluntarily, it's not as if they'd get away with opting against wearing them live on ITV at this time of year. That would generate more outrage and hassle in the media than it's probably worth for them right now.

Well I remember it being worn to 'support our boys in Northern Ireland'.

Now it's more so to 'support our troops in Afghanistan' etc.

I don't agree with those wars.
Were it still to represent what it was originally intended for, WW1, I would have no problem. But for me I see it now as a propaganda symbol.

It was once worn on the 11th November, now it's like Christmas. It appears before Hallowe'en and seems to go on forever.

Were the motives behind the World Wars really as "glorious" as they make out though?

At its core, the poppy is meant to be a symbol of peace.

Not quite: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...d-6257416.html

The original idea came, of course, from the Toronto military surgeon and poet John McCrae and was inspired by the death of his friend Lieutenant Alexis Helmer, killed on 3 May 1915. "In Flanders fields the poppies blow/Between the crosses, row on row." But it's a propaganda poem, urging readers to "take up the quarrel with the foe". Bill Fisk eventually understood this and turned against it. He was right.

[DannyInvincible]

Which one are you?: http://balls.ie/football/10-ways-iri...act-roy-keane/

1. The Ultimate Roy Keane Devotee

The Roy Keane Devotee is usually a Cork born Manchester United supporter who is part of a dwindling minority of people left on the island whom John Delaney hasn’t bought a pint for.

2. The “He left the country down” chap

This man will never forget “what Keane done” in 2002. No compromise, this man is not for turning. Currently contemplating not ever going to see Ireland play ever again for the second again. He opted out of the Brian Kerr reign.

3. The lad who gets into a fight with Keane in a chipper

This man hasn’t been around since the early to mid 90s. He was a prominent figure in Keane’s autobiography where he was usually portrayed as an unreasonable and menacing personal space invader, who liked roaring the term “****ing Langer” at the top of his voice and then telling everyone he was running to the papers after it had all kicked off.

4. The lad who changed his mind about Saipan

Was a Manchester United supporting kid/teenager when the Saipan business went down. Publicly, he rose to the defence of his club’s captain, claiming he was heroically battling against “Irish mediocrity and low expectations, you wouldn’t get this crap under Alex Ferguson and what have Mick McCarthy and the rest of them won anyway.” Privately, however, he had his doubts that Keane had to go off and sulk quite so spectacularly and miss the entire tournament. When Keane left Manchester United in 2005, he was able to take a less tribal and more reflective outlook on the whole bust-up, beginning to articulate a less pro-Roy and more nuanced take on the debacle. Roy’s sour press conference after the Henry handball was the final straw. Last month, he more than likely expressed an openness to the idea of Mick McCarthy taking over the Irish job.

5. The FAI Blazer

Your main role in life is to be the object of both Roy Keane’s and the wider general public’s utter contempt. You may not think much of the ‘truculent little Mayfield ********.’ But you must be emollient in all your public pronouncements because, as an FAI employee, you are not fighting from a position of strength in the battle for public opinion.

6. The lad who sits on the fence

Was unwilling to attack either McCarthy and Keane during 2002. Preferred to blame the FAI in general for the whole Saipan thing. When asked about Keane, he will look wistful and talk in vague terms about “the nature of the man”, juxtaposing his performances on the pitch and his professionalism off the pitch, noting that “you can’t have one without the other.”

7. The Dublin lad who played against Keane at underage level

A cocky ****er who took delight in beating Cork teams in typical cocky Dublin style. Generally the object of outrageously unfair favouritism on the part of the lads who select Irish underage teams. Those FAI bods who chose the team were based in Dublin and continually picked Dublin lads over, say, lads from Cork.

8. The effete intellectual psychologist

This guy’s first starting point is to talk about Keane’s personality defects, his temperament, his inability to deal with people and his suspected issues with alcohol. Generally takes a damning view of the Cork hero. Not interested in football as such and sometimes doesn’t even bother to offer the pat assertion that “of course he was a great player but…” He is usually an effete middle class individual with a high powered job.

9. The professional

Admires Keane immensely, taking his side on Saipan in a big way. Tries to portray a driven, hard-headed image. Constantly scoffs at Irish low expectations, adopts a hyper severe attitude to “useless moral victories” and affects to be happy with nothing less than a World Cup win or an All-Ireland victory. Has taken to drinking protein shakes, discussing the quality of facilities and calling out authority at every available opportunity. Usually an athlete of some sort.

10. The guide dogs volunteer

You generally coo over Roy Keane and talk about all the classy things he has done such as going into hospitals to visit sick children and not expecting any publicity for it. And of course, the amount of money and publicity he gives to the guide dogs.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Erm, beat you to it, Danny.

Though you made rather more effort...

[bennocelt]

Well I remember it being worn to 'support our boys in Northern Ireland'.

Now it's more so to 'support our troops in Afghanistan' etc.

I don't agree with those wars.
Were it still to represent what it was originally intended for, WW1, I would have no problem. But for me I see it now as a propaganda symbol.

It was once worn on the 11th November, now it's like Christmas. It appears before Hallowe'en and seems to go on forever.

Exactly, kind of makes a mockery of the whole original point. Christ could they not man up and refuse to play the game - bet they wont be wearing them anytime soon in Dublin!

Colm Meaney didnt have one on the One Show, but then he is a real rebel!

[Stuttgart88]

Bennocelt, can you please quit sending reputation comments to my private message inbox?

[DeLorean]

At its core, the poppy is meant to be a symbol of peace.
It has, however, become quite the opposite

Makes sense that Roy would wear it so

[OwlsFan]

That's completely understandable and I respect your viewpoint but personally I wouldn't wear one out of respect for my countrymen.

I'd wear one out of respect for the thousands of National Volunteers who died fighting in WW1 on the promise of Home Rule and those Irishmen who died in WW2 fighting fascism.

And speaking of war, Keane and O'Neill are appointed so good luck to them. I personally dislike Keane but he is now assistant manager so for the sake of the team, I hope it goes well. I still think it reminds me of Stalin's non-aggression pact with Hitler. Who knows, it might work for a short time but then again.....

Football will now overtake rugby for a while as the main sports item during the winter so that can't be a bad thing. Certainly the event junkies will be back for the Latvia game.

I know that Keane will be eyeing the main job but that's down the road.

Delaney is much despised in some quarters but he has swallowed a lot of pride in the Keane appointment and to continue to keep Denis O'Brien involved is good work.

Ad astra per aspera.

[paul_oshea]

I'm a proud Irishman. I live and work in England. England has given me a good lifestyle. My wife is English and my kids are half-English.

And I wear a poppy. I see no reason whatsoever why Roy and Martin shouldn't wear one either.

I think you might have said this last year, and I think my response was the same. Why do you wear one? Just to fit in? Or you identify somehow? What exactly are you supporting?

I've noticed through experience that those who work in the City, feel the need to wear it for some very obscure reason. I don't get it at all.

And I can always, always tell the kind of people, the demographic of Irish who wear them.

People always claim the poppy symbol is peace, I don't buy that one bit really, at least in the UK. ANd what I find awfully stupid is the argument "fighting and dying for you", maybe slightly for those back in WWII but that has very little relevance now.

[paul_oshea]

Does anyone remember the time when Wood got really angry and embarassed on BBC1 when he took it off and then he reappeared with it on?

Whats the point in forcing someone to wear it? Surely thats not very peaceful, the key is in the word

[paul_oshea]

I'd wear one out of respect for the thousands of National Volunteers who died fighting in WW1 on the promise of Home Rule and those Irishmen who died in WW2 fighting fascism.

And speaking of war, Keane and O'Neill are appointed so good luck to them. I personally dislike Keane but he is now assistant manager so for the sake of the team, I hope it goes well. I still think it reminds me of Stalin's non-aggression pact with Hitler. Who knows, it might work for a short time but then again.....

Football will now overtake rugby for a while as the main sports item during the winter so that can't be a bad thing. Certainly the event junkies will be back for the Latvia game.

I know that Keane will be eyeing the main job but that's down the road.

Delaney is much despised in some quarters but he has swallowed a lot of pride in the Keane appointment and to continue to keep Denis O'Brien involved is good work.

Ad astra per aspera.

Unfortunately its very difficult to convey a subtext when wearing a poppy, you could donate, and just not wear one for that reason, however where would it really be going?

[paul_oshea]

That's completely understandable and I respect your viewpoint but personally I wouldn't wear one out of respect for my countrymen.

Its not completely understandable it means nothing. It's like saying, you support the black panther movement because you live in Southern State america and your wife is black.

What if all the Irish that moved to Germany during WWII and started wearing or supporting some such symbol through donations cos Germany was good to them and their wife was German?

Stutts, I'm not having a go, I just don't see how he thinks its completely understandable.

England has been good to me, from money and job it couldn't be better thus far and I am very considered in my thinking because of this, I've even worked with some former generals in the army who served in NI, heck all the way up the chain was General Sir Mike Jackson, but at no time did I ever wear one or feel the need to wear one, for any tenuous links or to fit in with company(double entendre not intended).

When I say demographic above I don't mean the Northen Irish either....

[Charlie Darwin]

Its not completely understandable it means nothing. It's like saying, you support the black panther movement because you live in Southern State america and your wife is black.

No it's not. It's a symbol and symbols mean different things to different people.

[bennocelt]

I think you might have said this last year, and I think my response was the same. Why do you wear one? Just to fit in? Or you identify somehow? What exactly are you supporting?

I've noticed through experience that those who work in the City, feel the need to wear it for some very obscure reason. I don't get it at all.

And I can always, always tell the kind of people, the demographic of Irish who wear them.

People always claim the poppy symbol is peace, I don't buy that one bit really, at least in the UK. ANd what I find awfully stupid is the argument "fighting and dying for you", maybe slightly for those back in WWII but that has very little relevance now.

I lived in london for yonks, and the funny thing is many English people dont wear them at all - even been to football games on the day of remembrance weekend and sweet fa wearing poppies - what are the media trying to portray
Also told to f off back to ireland when i refused to buy one (due to the wars in iraq, etc), and then you hear comments without the British we would be speaking German! (That would be fine by me,ha).
Wear the Poppy, thats fine, but fecking three weeks before, thats a bit much