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Thread: Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

  1. #2461
    International Prospect tricky_colour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peadar1987 View Post
    Mick left Ipswich at the end of last season when they had finished (I believe) comfortably mid-table. Whether he can be blamed for their subsequent crash would take a closer follower of English football than me to say.
    I would not have though so, the new manager was fired in October. Mick planned to leave that year so I guess he had little incentive to build for next season, but I think some players were brought in and none sold
    The new manager has had little impact on their poor form.


    I looks hard to blame Mick really but....


    https://www.thesackrace.com/news/27t...rent-struggles
    Why Mick McCarthy is to blame for Ipswich Town’s current struggles

    To most outside IP1, the accepted theory is that Ipswich Town’s early-season blues are down to the exit of Mick McCarthy.
    The Yorkshireman maximized a limited squad and Paul Hurst, who has this week lost his job as Tractor Boys boss with just one win to his name, was unable to match his predecessor’s ability to perform on a low budget.

    Of course, the off-field issues do not help any Ipswich Manager.
    The club are continuously selling key assets and not spending anything like the same amount of money on their replacements.
    And yet, that is also the case for Swansea, Bristol City, Brentford and – forgive me Ipswich fans – Norwich.
    Those four clubs had been challenging in the top half under Graham Potter, Lee Johnson, Dean Smith and Daniel Farke – even if Smith left the Bees recently.
    What those four head coaches have done is trust in young players and, over a long period, introduce a modern brand of football that fans can buy into.
    This is what McCarthy has failed to do...
    Firstly, he generally favoured experienced performers.

    Eight Ipswich players made more than 35 appearances last season and of them, only Jonas Knudsen and Grant Ward were under 28; one could ask the question as to whether Knudsen or Ward have the potential to improve beyond the level they are currently at.

    Old players tend to be cheaper in the short-term, they are often more vocal in the changing rooms and can be more predictable in terms of performance levels.
    It is understandable, in some ways, that a manager without much spending power who has the brief of survival looks at this profile of player.
    more on link i dont want to copy it all

    but it make little sense as ..

    The dismissal of the 44-year-old and the appointment of Paul Lambert, who tends to favour old, British players in a defensive system, represents an attempt to get back to what they were doing before McCarthy left.

    The problem is, what they were doing before McCarthy left is what got them into this mess in the first place.
    So if they are trying to go back to what Mick was doing that is credit for Mick, it didn't get them into that mess really they were mid table.

  2. #2462
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    What was wrong with what Duff said? Bad defending leads to foul in the penalty area = penalty?
    It was a Spurs penalty claim for handball, not given. I should have explained it in more detail alright.

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  4. #2463
    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
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  5. #2464
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    Only a matter of time before they'll be back winning Champions League with the Two Amigos in charge.

  6. #2465
    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
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    Various reports saying O'Neill is poised to become the new manager of Nottingham Forest. They had concerns over Kananka's style of play!

  7. #2466
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    Assuming Daniel Taylor is one of MON's cronies in the media? A few thinly-veiled digs at the Ireland squad here: https://www.theguardian.com/football...st-new-manager

  8. #2467
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    I wouldn't even call those thinly veiled.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

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  10. #2468
    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
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    They're reasonable comments at the same time. He's entitled to defend his record when, on balance, we did probably overachieve in terms of results and group positions.

    It will be intriguing to see how this goes. I thought he might try to get John Robertson back on board, seeing as he's also emotionally invested in Forest. I know he's has health issues though. You'd have to fear for him a little if it's Keane, as suggested. Might work for a while maybe!

  11. #2469
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    They are reasonable but they're completely one -sided. Why report on the pending appointment and include strong defence of O'Neill's record? I don't see the point.

  12. #2470
    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
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    I don't think it is one sided. It's a summary of what he has done in his managerial career, good, bad (and perceived good/bad).

  13. #2471
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    I don't think it is one sided. It's a summary of what he has done in his managerial career, good, bad (and perceived good/bad).
    I don't see the need for the summary. I think it is one-sided in that it highlights the narrative "Ireland have no players, what do they expect" and little else. It ignores the subbing off of the midfield at home to Denmark and being outplayed by NI's League One players which would be the sticks used to to beat O'Neill by the media. Nobody has been deluded enough to think our squad is good. Yet the article fails to provide context for the O'Neill criticism and there's little balance.

    That's what I think.

    His entitlement to defend his record is obvious. This is just a tad *****ly, like a cringworthy Tony O'Donoghue interview for me.

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  15. #2472
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olé Olé View Post
    Assuming Daniel Taylor is one of MON's cronies in the media? A few thinly-veiled digs at the Ireland squad here: https://www.theguardian.com/football...st-new-manager
    He's a Nottingham Forest fan but not sure if he has much direct contact with him. It's the fellow in the Telegraph who gets spoonfed by him.

  16. #2473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin View Post
    He's a Nottingham Forest fan but not sure if he has much direct contact with him. It's the fellow in the Telegraph who gets spoonfed by him.
    Ah. Cheers. That sounds right.

  17. #2474
    International Prospect tricky_colour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    Various reports saying O'Neill is poised to become the new manager of Nottingham Forest. They had concerns over Kananka's style of play!
    I just hear he has been appointed manager on BBC news.

    I was a bit surprised as the previous manager had just beat top of the table Leeds away from home.

    Problem is the are poor at home and get bad results against teams down the bottom end of the table.

    Will be interesting to see how it pans out with two former Forest players in charge, probably not as well as expected, but we shall see,

  18. #2475
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    Isn't there an inveterate Nott. Forest fan who is also a member here and has suffered greatly over the years experiencing the rot take root in the Ireland set up under O'Neill and Keane?
    If so, I just can''t imagine the despair.

  19. #2476
    Seasoned Pro shakermaker1982's Avatar
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    I think you are overestimating the abilities of English football journalists in knowing or remembering the full inside story on what happened against Denmark.

    English football fans (& journalists) look at our current side and think ‘how the **** did you beat Germany, Italy etc. Harsh but true’. Get it in the office every time we have a bad result.

    Dan Taylor is a good journalist and knows his stuff. Worked the Manchester beat for a number of years.

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  21. #2477
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    I'd expect most articles breaking a managerial appointment to include a basic synopsis of the manager's previous jobs. I wouldn't really expect a tactical analysis of specific matches. I agree the article reads favourably from O'Neill's point of view, but then his managerial career has generally been a very successful one. He had a poor record at Sunderland and this was highlighted. He had a mixed spell with us and the different perspectives were highlighted, albeit in a general sense.

    Looks like Keane will be his number two again - https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-37712188.html

  22. #2478
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    Article is ok but glosses over the scale of the downward trajectory at the end of his time with Ireland.

  23. #2479
    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    Article is ok but glosses over the scale of the downward trajectory at the end of his time with Ireland.
    As Shakermaker suggests, I don't think the scale of that trajectory is anywhere near as obvious from the outside looking in. We lived every painful detail of it, Taylor probably looks at the campaign as a whole and sees some decent/excellent results and a disappointing ending. That does have the effect of glossing over some of the bad stuff, I'm just not sure it's deliberate.

    Anyway, O'Neill confirmed - https://www.nottinghamforest.co.uk/n...ill-appointed/

  24. #2480
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    As Shakermaker suggests, I don't think the scale of that trajectory is anywhere near as obvious from the outside looking in. We lived every painful detail of it, Taylor probably looks at the campaign as a whole and sees some decent/excellent results and a disappointing ending. That does have the effect of glossing over some of the bad stuff, I'm just not sure it's deliberate.

    Anyway, O'Neill confirmed - https://www.nottinghamforest.co.uk/n...ill-appointed/
    I'd guess it's more likely that as a Forest fan, he doesn't really want to piss all over their new manager by saying how awful his most recent campaign was, so glossed over it.

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