Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

**Fixer82** · 22/11/2018, 7:21 PM

Originally Posted by seanfhear

Not picking you when you are ( ok , opinions ) good enough is bad treatment .I hope every Irish Player rates themselves . Its a tough competitive game , Self Belief is vitally important .

I suggest that Doherty thinks that they treated him badly by not picking him . I agree with him .

Yeah I get the point. But he was brought into the set up before and they obviously didn’t think he fit in.

And I understand him feeling aggrieved. Any player with self worth should do so. But I think he’s overly cocky in his few interviews when he doesn’t need to be.
Maybe I’m wrong and I hope I am.

**mark12345** · 23/11/2018, 9:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kingdom

I've not liked the narrative that's been around the ONeill tenure in the last few hours. "Best ever performance at a Euro's" - wrong. "Denmark defeat turning point" - wrong.

The turning point was the first game of the World cup qualifiers. The spin coming out of Euro2016 was that we were back, we are playing good football, and are ready to march again. As ever with football, there are asterixes beside all the opinions whether its an amateur opinion or a pro opinion. We got the ideal start away in the type of fixture that we've always struggled in. This time we were playing a team on their knees confidence wise, and we buckled. We buckled because despite the ****e that's been thrown about in platitudes in the last 12 hours, we were never encouraged to do the basics in football and retain possession. It's broken out on occasion, but generally it's been route one. Don't forget having played two of the tough games in the group and come away with 4 points, we were leading the group coming out of 2016. Everyone seems to have lost sight of that, and focussed on the Denmark game in Lansdowne. It unravelled in the Spring and summer, when with a nice run of games, we completely shut down and capitulated. Wales, Austria and Serbia at home were three of the worst home performances by an Irish side in a long time. The win away to Wales was super, but it wasn't a masterclass or anything like it. We defended deep, gave Wales no space in behind, and snatched our only real opportunity. You have to respect a defensive performance when it's required, but what we did away to Wales, and what we did in those German games, was what we've always hated from weaker teams doing to us, showing no interest in engaging in football and stifling the opposition and hoping for a lucky break.
I would have no problem in doing that against a much superior team, but the problem is that has become our norm, our standard, so that when faced with teams who are not superior, that when we have to take the initiative, we are unable to do so. That this hasn't been highlighted seriously bugs me, as if crowd numbers should be the deciding point on a managers tenure. Irish sports "fans" are fickle mofo's. Generally it's all about the event. Ask me b

Very good points all. We talk ad nauseum about the Denmark game. It all went pear shaped way before that, when Austria came to town. In the history of Austrian football the team that visited the Aviva must have been the weakest side they ever put out. They were there, not for the taking, but for a real hiding from Ireland, that is if we set about it the right way. But of course we didn't and when MON decided to not to start Wes Hoolahan, it was one of the worst decisions of his tenure. He had the chance to correct his mistake at half time, but inexplicably he didn't. What happened when Wes came on with 20 minutes left? The game was totally transformed. We equalized and had Austria on the rack before putting a second ball in the net only for it to be ruled out for offside. Bad to worse in Georgia a few months later - the most despicable performance I have ever seen from any team. And it was all over when Serbia visited. And you are correct Kingdom - we have no interest anymore in engaging other teams but instead just look for a lucky break. We have fallen down that hole and it seems we are not able to get out.

**Charlie Darwin** · 25/11/2018, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by mark12345

In the history of Austrian football the team that visited the Aviva must have been the weakest side they ever put out.

Ah, look, it was a poor Austria team no doubt but they've had some shocking teams. There's no need to exaggerate to say Ireland missed an open goal.

**Stuttgart88** · 25/11/2018, 11:40 AM

David Walshe quite good in today's Sunday Times, an insight into O'Neill's *****ly character.

**Fixer82** · 25/11/2018, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by mark12345

Very good points all. We talk ad nauseum about the Denmark game. It all went pear shaped way before that, when Austria came to town. In the history of Austrian football the team that visited the Aviva must have been the weakest side they ever put out. They were there, not for the taking, but for a real hiding from Ireland, that is if we set about it the right way. But of course we didn't and when MON decided to not to start Wes Hoolahan, it was one of the worst decisions of his tenure. He had the chance to correct his mistake at half time, but inexplicably he didn't. What happened when Wes came on with 20 minutes left? The game was totally transformed. We equalized and had Austria on the rack before putting a second ball in the net only for it to be ruled out for offside. Bad to worse in Georgia a few months later - the most despicable performance I have ever seen from any team. And it was all over when Serbia visited. And you are correct Kingdom - we have no interest anymore in engaging other teams but instead just look for a lucky break. We have fallen down that hole and it seems we are not able to get out.

I also remember Wes coming on against Denmark in the 5-1 game and setting Shane Long up with a beautiful ball to make it 3-2 or 4-2 (game was up anyway) and Long made a mess of it.

It was frustrating seeing Wes not start games when he always created something

**geysir** · 25/11/2018, 2:32 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

David Walshe quite good in today's Sunday Times, an insight into O'Neill's *****ly character.

Any chance of posting up the article for us plebs who can't afford such luxuries? ie if Tets is ok with that.

**Stuttgart88** · 25/11/2018, 4:49 PM

I read it in my local cafe. I'm not a subscriber. Basically DW said he criticised MON and Ireland's play after the 1-1 at home to Scotland, saying Scotland looked the better side, more cohesive etc. MON rang him to complain, thinking the criticism wasn't fair and was over the top. DW said he was not trying to be unfair, just writing what he thought. MON said, watch my words, we'll qualify. DW said and if we do I'll be the first to congratulate you. Two days after we qualified DW rang O'Neill several times and left several messages and eventually texted his congratulations, asking when would be a good time for him to call. MON ignored all the calls and texts.

The rest of the article was simply that O'Neill is very old school. He occasionally looked on in training and really only got involved to give players extra shuttle runs if he felt they weren't putting in the required effort in training. The rest was left to the coaches who themselves were hands off and old school.

**geysir** · 25/11/2018, 8:19 PM

I guess MON must be a subscriber then?

**tetsujin1979** · 25/11/2018, 9:09 PM

article is here: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/o...-job-qwcr9dm35
You can register to read three free articles a week.

**Stuttgart88** · 26/11/2018, 8:01 AM

Originally Posted by geysir

I guess MON must be a subscriber then?

No, he also goes to Costa Coffee on Sundays.

**geysir** · 26/11/2018, 8:34 AM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

article is here: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/o...-job-qwcr9dm35
You can register to read three free articles a week.

I only see an option for a free 30 day trial, then £5/month. No path to register for the limited free access.

**tetsujin1979** · 26/11/2018, 9:09 AM

It's actually only two free articles a week, click register and you'll get access

**tetsujin1979** · 26/11/2018, 9:12 AM

I read the article yesterday, basically O'Neill told Walsh after the 1-1 with Scotland that we would still qualify, Walsh said if we did then he's be the first to congratulate the manager.
Following the play off, Walsh rang and sent a text to congratulate O'Neill on qualification, and he never called back or replied.

**Diggs246** · 26/11/2018, 9:35 AM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I read the article yesterday, basically O'Neill told Walsh after the 1-1 with Scotland that we would still qualify, Walsh said if we did then he's be the first to congratulate the manager.
Following the play off, Walsh rang and sent a text to congratulate O'Neill on qualification, and he never called back or replied.

Its classic bully behavior, I'm so glad we have moved on

**geysir** · 26/11/2018, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

It's actually only two free articles a week, click register and you'll get access

As I wrote, there is no register option, only subscribe.

**tetsujin1979** · 26/11/2018, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by geysir

As I wrote, there is no register option, only subscribe.

Sorry, posted that from my phone
click the "Get access" link on the article, register your details and you'll get two free articles a week

**osarusan** · 26/11/2018, 11:54 AM

Best of luck to both of them anyway.

I think they stayed too long and have done their reputations a bit of damage over the last few months, but I hope they'll find jobs.

O'Neill should get something, a championship club maybe?

Not sure who would be interested in Keane.

**geysir** · 26/11/2018, 3:45 PM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Sorry, posted that from my phone
click the "Get access" link on the article, register your details and you'll get two free articles a week

No Get Access link on the article that loads up on my 2 browsers. The access to 2 articles a week must a British Isles ip thing.

**backstothewall** · 26/11/2018, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

Best of luck to both of them anyway.

I think they stayed too long and have done their reputations a bit of damage over the last few months, but I hope they'll find jobs.

O'Neill should get something, a championship club maybe?

Not sure who would be interested in Keane.

I'd say there is a good chance they will be back together the next time the Forest job comes up.

**Fixer82** · 26/11/2018, 3:56 PM

Just reading Dan McDonnell’s piece about Roy Keane.

‘Keane's sideline manner was abrasive; the Sky microphones picked it up in Aarhus on Monday.’

Missed this. Can anyone enlighten us?

I’d imagine Keane was driven demented by the performances of Irish Central Midfielders