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Thread: Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

  1. #2021
    Seasoned Pro jbyrne's Avatar
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    italys team featured 2 from PSG, 1 from AC Milan, 4 (2 of which started the champions lge final 11 months later) from Juve and 1 from Roma. we can only dream of having such a layer of first line players. cant imagine conte was too pleased at losing either!

    as I have said before.... there are many irish fans who just love making excuses for the opposition when we beat them.

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  3. #2022
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    Ask the Swedes if they'd have rather played the Italy team we played or the Italy team they played.

  4. #2023
    Seasoned Pro jbyrne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brine3 View Post
    Ask the Swedes if they'd have rather played the Italy team we played or the Italy team they played.
    all part of tournament football. ask us if we would have preferred having the same break before our last 16 match than the French had.

  5. #2024
    International Prospect bennocelt's Avatar
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    We came in the top 16 in Europe, so proud.

  6. #2025
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brine3 View Post
    Drawing 0-0 is better than losing 5-1 at home.
    Not sure I'd agree when it's drawing 0-0 against Liechtenstein.

    Though it could be argued that we were unlucky in that game - 40 shots; 20 corners. It was just one of those days. Denmark we deserved to lose as badly as we did - albeit that we were undone by having to go for goals in the second half - and a thrashing had been coming for a while.

  7. #2026
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennocelt View Post
    We came in the top 16 in Europe, so proud.
    I think it was a decent achievement.

    Overall, I think O'Neill's achievements have been decent. the 2016 Euros: Qualification for the finals and then getting out of the group - could we really have expected any better?

    Even in the last campaign, we qualified for the playoffs - could we really have expected to top the group ahead of Serbia, Wales, and Austria? Certainly, being so utterly dismantled by Denmark left a bad taste in the mouth, as does the style of play in general, but I still think the achievements are decent.

    If we had achieved the same thing over the last two campaigns, but done that with a more attractive style of football, would MON be getting the same amount of criticism? I doubt it to be honest.

    With an international manager, all he can do is make the most of the resources at his disposal, and, with the exception of how he has used (and not used) Hoolahan, I'm not convinced that any other way of playing would have brought about greater achievements. With our players, I think that qualification itself is a success, and I don't much care how it's achieved. Failure to qualify with our players doesn't automatically mean the manager has failed either, in my opinion.

    My main criticism of O'Neill is that he is overly defensive in games where he shouldn't be, and that loses us points that a less conservative set-up might have earned. But over the course of a campaign, we haven't done worse that I would have expected us to do.
    Last edited by osarusan; 19/01/2018 at 2:19 PM.

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  9. #2027
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    My criticism of O'Neill is not that he is overly defensive.

  10. #2028
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    It was in the 2nd campaign where visible management/coaching issues from the first campaign came more to the fore and there's no hope that it will get any better.
    The ugly football played the "Irish way" tactic deficient hoofball, under Trap and O'Neill is the stuff of derision in Europe. Not even Lichtenstein or Andorra play football this way.
    The blatantly obvious move is to change managers, allow the new one to build up a new team in a new era with the benefit of more time and patience.

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  12. #2029
    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    That's what fans and board members are known for - patience

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  14. #2030
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    That's the problem. The fans and the FAI only care about qualification for the next tournament, to the detriment of the long-term development of the game in Ireland.

  15. #2031
    Seasoned Pro jbyrne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brine3 View Post
    That's the problem. The fans and the FAI only care about qualification for the next tournament, to the detriment of the long-term development of the game in Ireland.
    the development of the game in Ireland is heavily dependant on the success of the national team. Irish fans love nothing more than success and people are kidding themselves if they think fans will pay at the gate for solely for entertaining football

  16. #2032
    First Team IsMiseSean's Avatar
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    For me, the main disappointment of the campaign was at this point last year we were in a fantastic position to top the group. We had home games against Wales, Austria & Serbia, a difficult trip to Wales and a potential banana skin in Tbilisi to come.
    In two of the home games we played against 10 men for 20+ mins and still couldn't win either of them.
    The performance in Tbilisi was embarrassing considering we took the lead early and still couldn't win.
    The victory in Wales was a lucky result and if Bale hadn't been injured we would have more than likely lost that game.
    Then we had the shambles of the playoff.

    Recapping it like that, how on earth can anyone think it's a good idea to go with MON for another campaign?

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  18. #2033
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    The Clubs aren’t trying too hard to get Martin O' Neill......coz if they were you get the impression he would be off !

  19. #2034
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    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    I think it was a decent achievement.

    Overall, I think O'Neill's achievements have been decent. the 2016 Euros: Qualification for the finals and then getting out of the group - could we really have expected any better?

    Even in the last campaign, we qualified for the playoffs - could we really have expected to top the group ahead of Serbia, Wales, and Austria? Certainly, being so utterly dismantled by Denmark left a bad taste in the mouth, as does the style of play in general, but I still think the achievements are decent.

    With an international manager, all he can do is make the most of the resources at his disposal, and, with the exception of how he has used (and not used) Hoolahan, I'm not convinced that any other way of playing would have brought about greater achievements. With our players, I think that qualification itself is a success, and I don't much care how it's achieved. Failure to qualify with our players doesn't automatically mean the manager has failed either, in my opinion..
    Thats all very fair Osarusan, I accept some of what you said. I just dont think O' Neill is some sort of genius or that we did brilliant. For all the dosh they get, but not only that the amount of bull that comes out of them.

  20. #2035
    Seasoned Pro jbyrne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IsMiseSean View Post
    The victory in Wales was a lucky result and if Bale hadn't been injured we would have more than likely lost that game.
    yes, lets just forget that we were missing our best player and captain in that game too.

  21. #2036
    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    Bale played in the home leg too, we didn't lose that either

  22. #2037
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    Quote Originally Posted by IsMiseSean View Post
    Yeah, it's the thought of more nights like Wales Serbia & Austria at home, the Denmark games that's deflating.
    Hopefully some fresh faces in the squad in March might get the enthusiasm going again.
    The way O'Neill's squads have been in the past I'm expecting more of the same with the fresh faces being Alex Pearce, Stephen Gleeson & Adam Rooney.
    In fairness, I think this is one area where O'Neill has been pretty successful, despite limited opportunities to blood players after the Euro 2016 qualifiers kicked off: He capped Rob Elliot just as he was about to become a Premier League regular, with the same to be said about Kevin Long, which has made us less reliant on Keogh and Pearce, along with making Shane Duffy an integral part of our central defence more than a year before he became a Premier League defender. He threw 2-cap Darren Randolph on against Germany and we know how that ended. He brought Cyrus Christie into the fold, who has proven himself a very capable back-up to Seamus Coleman.

    He also gave debuts to O'Dowda, Hourihane, Browne, Arter, Maguire and Horgan who may have important roles to play in the next qualifying campaigns and should get the chance to become more integrated into the team in the coming months as well as snaring Scott Hogan, who should also get his opportunity to impress. Besides them, the likely debutantes in the Spring and Summer friendlies would be: Declan Rice, for sure; Josh Cullen, if he starts getting game time in the league; Matt Doherty deserves his shot, especially as it's looking more and more likely that Wolves will get promoted; Wessi-alike Alan Judge, now that he's returned from injury; Wessi Junior Liam Kelly; Aiden O'Brien, as we will need depth up front; Enda Stevens, Greg Cunningham and/or Kevin O'Connor as we need cover at left back.

    Beyond these, it would take something pretty special from other potentials to justify a call-up over the next few months - for the likes of Shaughnessy, Carruthers, Charsley, Ronan, Doyle-Hayes, Lawlor, Byrne etc, these friendlies will likely be a little too soon (that said, O'Neill gave O'Dowda his first cap when he had only played League Two so you never know). Because when the next season starts it's likely that we will have 15-18 Premier League players who will provide the bulk of our squad - add in established internationals who will probably be playing in The Championship (Randolph, Christie, Meyler, McGeady) and there's not that many places up for grabs.

    The upcoming friendlies will give O'Neill the opportunity for serious experimentation, so we shouldn't be too surprised if we have a couple of repeats of last year's disaster against Mexico. But hopefully by the time the Nations League rolls around, some of the newbies will have impressed enough to warrant an opportunity to continue playing, with an eye to having them fully ready for the Euro qualifiers in March

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  24. #2038
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    Perhaps Martin O' Neill could do with a new coach to freshen things up and even Martin himself .

    Looking at Roy Keane would wear thin for anyone after awhile .

  25. #2039
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    Will there be a home friendly in March? Don't we always have a friendly included in the season ticket in March?

  26. #2040
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbyrne View Post
    yes, lets just forget that we were missing our best player and captain in that game too.
    Fair point, but our best player was unlikely to be a match winner. As mush as I love Coleman, he isn't as influential in the attacking third as Bale.

    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    Bale played in the home leg too, we didn't lose that either
    Again fair point, but from minute one Wales were settling for a draw. If I remember correctly there were also doubts over Bale's fitness going in to the game.
    Drawing at home to Wales wasn't a good result considering the position we were in at the time. If anything the Wales result along with the Coleman injury was a momentum killer and we just got worse from that point on.

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