A 7-team league First Division Next Year

[Dillonman]

Must be true if The Star says it.

Must be, think they reported last week that pigs could fly as well.

[adamd164]

Would be delighted to see Tralee in, Kerry and similar GAA strongholds are where we've always lacked LOI teams traditionally.

[SkStu]

Must be, think they reported last week that pigs could fly as well.

Is there nothing Rovers fans can't do?

[Ezeikial]

In an article in The Star, "Paul Lennon vehemently opposes the possibility of the Tallaght club having a second team in the League of Ireland"

http://www.thestar.ie/star/a-rovers-...-a-sham-36753/

[disgruntled]

That's all very well from Mr Lennon but he doesn't ask or answer any of the questions that I asked in an earlier post & which most people would like an answer to.

(1) Will Rovers be getting some form of financial assistance to put a team in the 1^st Division?
(2) Will Rovers be allowed to pull out of the U19 league, participation in which I understand is part of the rules in receiving a licence & if so what effect will that have on the licencing applications of all the other League of Ireland clubs.
(3) Were all the other Premier Division clubs given the option to enter a team in the 1^st division for the coming season?

Lennon's piece is just jumping on the bandwagon without bothering to investigate any of the circumstances. Anyone on here could have written the same piece any time. The only difference is that he gets paid for doing it. It’s just another example of the lazy journalism we have come to expect in this country.
Just write your standard piece, throw in a few file photo's & that’ll do.
I would also disagree with Lennon when he says it’s a barmy idea. Throughout Europe it is common for clubs to have reserve teams in the lower divisions & looking at the standard of the football in these countries it doesn't seem to have done any harm at all.

Personally I have no problem with Rovers having a Reserve / B team in the 1st Division provided every other Premier Division team were given the same opportunity & possible incentives.
I have highlighted the word incentives as we don't know if there were any because no one from the FAI has bothered to come out & explain their latest batch of fudge.

I have e mailed the FAI with a request for information but I won't be holding my breath.

Incidentally I already know the answer to question no 3 above.
It is NO.

[A face]

(3) Were all the other Premier Division clubs given the option to enter a team in the 1^st division for the coming season?

That answer to that is no.

[CrowdedHouse]

(2) Will Rovers be allowed to pull out of the U19 league, participation in which I understand is part of the rules in receiving a licence & if so what effect will that have on the licensing applications of all the other League of Ireland clubs.
.

This mustn't matter because the new GFC are not allowed have an U19 team for at least 5 years

[legendz]

If B teams are allowed, all premier clubs should have the option to field a B team.

[disgruntled]

That answer to that is no.

Yes as I said in my post.
Don't know why though ?

This mustn't matter because the new GFC are not allowed have an U19 team for at least 5 years

Is there a reason for that ?

If B teams are allowed, all premier clubs should have the option to field a B team.

The problem is they weren't.
Why all the secrecy ? It happens all over Europe.
Just come out and ask every Premier League club if they would like to enter a Reserve / B team in the 1st Division.
If some say no then that's fine but at least give them the option.
But no, that would be to easy for our glorious leaders the FAI.

[galwayhoop]

If B teams are allowed, all premier clubs should have the option to field a B team.

Well assuming that the other clubs could meet license criteria with both the A and the B team then I agree.

Being allowed to swap the u19's for a B team is a big advantage imo. I'm sure a lot of other clubs would consider entering a B team in the 1st div if it meant they weren't "wasting" money on an u19 team where it's such a monumental jump from that to senior LOI.

I'm not too bothered if every team wasn't asked as for various reasons the likes of Bray, Drogheda, Athlone, Bohs and probably Dundalk wouldn't have a notion of supporting a second senior side. But I'd hope that at least some were asked, even casually.

Teams like Rovers, Derry, Cork and Limerick would certainly look at the feasibility I would imagine.

I don't think Pats (could be wrong) or Sligo would be interested.

UCD conceivably could enter but given they flirt toward the relegation end of the table (granted don't usually go down) so maybe on football basis they wouldn't be ideal but player resource wise they certainly would find it beneficial.

[Ezeikial]

I'm not too bothered if every team wasn't asked as for various reasons the likes of Bray, Drogheda, Athlone, Bohs and probably Dundalk wouldn't have a notion of supporting a second senior side. But I'd hope that at least some were asked, even casually.

Do you work in the FAI? If not get your CV in quick - you show the sort of reasoning that they really value.

[disgruntled]

Well assuming that the other clubs could meet license criteria with both the A and the B team then I agree.

Being allowed to swap the u19's for a B team is a big advantage imo. I'm sure a lot of other clubs would consider entering a B team in the 1st div if it meant they weren't "wasting" money on an u19 team where it's such a monumental jump from that to senior LOI.

I'm not too bothered if every team wasn't asked as for various reasons the likes of Bray, Drogheda, Athlone, Bohs and probably Dundalk wouldn't have a notion of supporting a second senior side. But I'd hope that at least some were asked, even casually.

Teams like Rovers, Derry, Cork and Limerick would certainly look at the feasibility I would imagine.

I don't think Pats (could be wrong) or Sligo would be interested.

UCD conceivably could enter but given they flirt toward the relegation end of the table (granted don't usually go down) so maybe on football basis they wouldn't be ideal but player resource wise they certainly would find it beneficial.

I thought I'd better ask but you're not Delaney in disguise are you ?
Because if not you're not there's definitely a place for you out in Abbotstown.
Its thinking like yours which is the reason we're here discussing this subject.
I wonder what Bray, Drogheda, Athlone, Bohs, Dundalk, Pats, Sligo & others clubs think of your vision for them.
Have you asked them ?

These clubs may not bother you but they bother a lot to the rest of us.
Strong clubs make a strong League which is good for the League of Ireland & football in Ireland in general.
A strong league properly run brings more people to the games which brings in more money for better facilities & better players.
Don't know about you but I know I'm tired of foreign clubs coming over here & stealing our brightest prospects for a handful of beans simply so we can feed ourselves from hand to mouth because those running our league's are more interested in their friends in EUFA & FIFA than their own National League .

[citybone]

I thought I'd better ask but you're not Delaney in disguise are you ?
Because if not you're not there's definitely a place for you out in Abbotstown.
Its thinking like yours which is the reason we're here discussing this subject.
I wonder what Bray, Drogheda, Athlone, Bohs, Dundalk, Pats, Sligo & others clubs think of your vision for them.
Have you asked them ?

These clubs may not bother you but they bother a lot to the rest of us.
Strong clubs make a strong League which is good for the League of Ireland & football in Ireland in general.
A strong league properly run brings more people to the games which brings in more money for better facilities & better players.
Don't know about you but I know I'm tired of foreign clubs coming over here & stealing our brightest prospects for a handful of beans simply so we can feed ourselves from hand to mouth because those running our league's are more interested in their friends in EUFA & FIFA than their own National League .

I dont know what your getting so worked up about, i think the same as him although i think Sligo would consider it too. The likes of Bray and Bohs simply could not afford to field a second team, crowds would be very low. I think Cork and Derry could have fielded a second team alright but Derry have a second team in the Ulster senior league which is much cheaper for them and Cork City can just Loan players out to Cobh and save money.

[Dodge]

If B teams are allowed, all premier clubs should have the option to field a B team.

They do. Just because Rovers were approached doesn't mean they can't apply in the same manner. Not a chance the majority will bother (for financial reasons)

[galwayhoop]

Thanks citybone.

The rest of ye relax. It's a bit like someone giving out when they weren't invited to a party when you know already they are away on holiday - but they still want to be invited.

My post was long enough, I felt, without breaking down the reasons why each club would not need the burden of a second league of ireland team. Minimum cost of €150,000 - €200,000 per annum. In most cases it's "the economy, stupid" as James Carville would say.

Anyway to ward off the Delaney rumours here goes...

Bray... Perennial relegation fighters who seem to be fighting to stay competitive in the premier division. The cost would be an unneeded burden.

Drogheda... Close to the brink of extinction a couple of years ago, unable to increase budget this year to push on from last couple of seasons so split with successful manager.

Athlone... Just promoted from a generation in the first division. All efforts will be on remaining in the premier division.

Bohs... Millions in debt. Are nearly amateur by all accounts. Rely on unproven young players and currently compete toward the bottom half. Financially could not handle duplicating this in a second division.

Dundalk... Now competing for silverware. Were also sailing very close to the wind recently. Will need every resource to push on from last year and maintain their level of competitiveness.

Pats... Having reduced their bugget most years in the recent past they still went on to win the league. Will need every penny to remain ahead of the two Rovers.

Sligo... Provincial club who operate on a near full time basis. Due to limited budget do not have a large squad as they can't afford it. After years of not competing they are now one of the top clubs in the country. However, they appear to be just able to maintain this level of expenditure.

UCD... Have how many teams already and stock these from students in the college. It could actually benefit them although their reserve teams already play LSL which is a decent level anyway. Doubt budget would be increased to enter second team.

Rovers... Big resources, massive player pool.

Derry... Decent position financially, already have second team competing in USL. May even have a local league team. Although as said above the cost of travel would mean they may decline.

Cork... Have sought to enter teams in the MSL before. As said above they already use Cobh for loaning players so may also decline.

Limerick... Big resources through their sugar daddy. Progressive club. They just might be interested.

Now the above is my interpretation of these clubs from stories, rumour and gossip. If I'm wrong i don't need lynching. This is just how a supporter of the league views the teams in the top division.

The FAI (of whom I am not a member) surely have a more in depth knowledge of each clubs finances through licensing etc.

Oh and if they had of asked every club I'm sure some of the same characters would be on here lambasting their stupidity of asking clubs who they know are in the doldrums (financially) if they would enter a second team. You just can't win with some people.

To my mind there are only 4 or 5 teams that it is worthwhile asking. The rest would not entertain it dor a second. And of that 4 or 5 only 2 or 3 would actually be interested.

Granted the others should not be refused the option if they wish to ask themselves.

That's my view anyway.

[galwayhoop]

Dodge I would have saved ten minutes of my life if I saw your post...

[Macy]

They do. Just because Rovers were approached doesn't mean they can't apply in the same manner. Not a chance the majority will bother (for financial reasons)

It should be an open and transparent process, with transparent criteria. Not this "we like the cut of your jib model club, fancy a B team?". Applications invited, additional licences granted against the criteria

Talk of finances is moot, as the sums are different if a team entering a B team can scrap their under 19's, then you're talking additional costs. Factor in lax rules about player movements (so getting better value out of the squad you're already paying) and it becomes much more attractive.

If most clubs wouldn't be interested, then there would've been no problem asking them. I can't believe some appear to be defending how this whole thing has, and continues to be, handled.

[Ezeikial]

They do. Just because Rovers were approached doesn't mean they can't apply in the same manner. Not a chance the majority will bother (for financial reasons)

Are you on a wind-up?

That is absolute nonsense - the suggestion that changing / relaxing / altering the rules for one club is somehow okay, because other clubs may not necessarily be specifically barred from applying also.

It is irrelevant that the majority of club may decline for financial reasons - fair play and transparency dictates that all clubs should be informed of the arrangements and criteria and invited to apply if interested.

[Yossarian]

I have no problem with Rovers or any other team having a reserve side in the first division once they are treated as a separate entity and players cannot switch between teams outside the transfer window.
There is an issue though if they are allowed to circumvent the licensing rules that all clubs have to adhere to as this could potentially open the FAI to legal challenge on any licensing issue down the line.

[gormacha]

There's no way I'm spending money to watch Shamrock Rovers' (or whoever) reserve team.

Reserve teams, by their very nature, are different animals to first XIs. The logic of their existence is player development for another team. They are used for experimentation, blooding, recovery and training. One week they'll play a full strength eleven, the next not. This undermines the division as every other team's logic will be to get promoted. It'll be pot luck which reserve team the other FD teams will face, and it will have a material outcome on the division.

In effect, the FD with a reserve team in it is a six team division with an added lottery dimension. If you had free hand to draw up ways to undermine a league this wouldn't be a bad effort.