Intertoto or bust?

**�anna** · 07/10/2004, 11:38 PM

If it came to it, and we qualified for the intertoto, would people want to enter it, or turn the place down and concentrate on domestic success?

My personal view is that (At best) the intertoto is good publicity, but has ruined our season and would do so again. I'd turn it down flat.

**A face** · 08/10/2004, 12:25 AM

Just for the fact that the players have to raise their game against teams that play a totally different game to our leagues football if you know what i mean. For that alone is it good entertainment value as a punter.

Also the success that we had in the summer helped raise the profile of the club, not just to the general public but to the would be sponsors of City. It is alot easier when City are doing well in the league, it hits all the local press/media etc. but when in Europe the coverage is more National. That scale of exposure for any company is very attractive and making selling City as a product alot easier.

Also, other players .... across the water or where ever, look at the opportunity to play in Europe either for the experience or to put themselves in the shop window. The possiblity of playing in these kind of games must appeal to any player, hopefully the better ones are the ones that end up at the cross.

Also .... players in the system right now, junior clubs, schoolboys, munster senior league where ever, see that City have games in Europe and it is something to strive for, a place on the team when the chance comes around. If it keeps players in our league longer than at present then it has to be better for it overall.

Also ... five years ago ... turning down the chance to play in Europe, you would have shunned if you suggested it "c'mere la, will ya listen to you're man there'la, turn down Europe ... what f�ckin' planet is on ?? He is wan pure goul like !!" ...... Have we really gone and stuck our heads in the clouds in that time.

**jofyisgod** · 08/10/2004, 6:57 AM

I said Yes, but with doubts.

It is good from all angles of looking at it, except for the fact that the players get wrecked, and the fixtures pile up. It is a PR dream, no doubt about it-it's a great marketing tool, it attracts fans, it's great for the club .

However, it is not so great for the team-they enjoy these games, but i'm sure they'd have swapped the Intertoto glory(or at least some of it) for a bit of an easier ride the last few weeks. We have been done over by the FAI, but that will happen again if we enter the Intertoto.

IMO, the goods just outweigh the bads, so Yes.

**BeerBaron69** · 08/10/2004, 9:49 AM

I'd play in it no problem-it fills up the Cross and earns the club extra revenue.
The players should be focused on domestic success and a few extra games SHOULD not be affecting the rest of the season.

**ccfcman** · 08/10/2004, 9:52 AM

The European hangover is a myth created by managers and the media to excuse under performing teams IMO, and therefore European football is vital, but come on guys, we want better don't we? Lets not settle for Inter22, we want UEFA cup or better surely?

**BeerBaron69** · 08/10/2004, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by ccfcman

The European hangover is a myth created by managers and the media to excuse under performing teams IMO, and therefore European football is vital, but come on guys, we want better don't we? Lets not settle for Inter22, we want UEFA cup or better surely?

Agreed. A team shpuld not be affected by 6 games for almost 3 months. When you consider we had a sucessful European venture we should be doing a lot better this year

**Colm** · 08/10/2004, 11:20 AM

Well I know for a fact that Nissan have said their sponsorship was well worth the money this season simply because of the european odyessy. So, that shows that from the commercial side of things we need to be in Europe and if it's the inter toto then we have got to take part.

Also, the experience the players gain from it is so so valuable and we can not afford to give that up.
And the fans enjoy the away trips too!!

We need to be in Europe and the inter toto is better than nothing. I actaully can't believe there's one or two people who wouldn't want to enter it.... it makes no sense.... what the hell are you thinking? It's for the betterment of the club.... we NEED european football!

thecorner · 08/10/2004, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Colm

the european odyessy. !

i love seeing that

odyessy

**boc123** · 08/10/2004, 11:26 AM

Surely European football is what all the players want, everyone wants the big games and experiences. I don't think the problems in the league were necessarily a result of playing in the intertoto, it was more to do with other issues. I don't think you can turn down an opportunity like it.

**tiktok** · 08/10/2004, 12:15 PM

While the whole odyssey

was a great experience, personally I wouldn't be too keen on it.
But the club have to enter it from a financial point of view.

**paudie** · 08/10/2004, 1:10 PM

Originally Posted by �anna

My personal view is that (At best) the intertoto is good publicity, but has ruined our season and would do so again.

How come Shelbourne playing more games, against better teams, in a more important competition hasn't ruined their season then?

If we're aiming to be a professional successful club we should be in some European competition every year.

If the club decides it can't cope with the extra games and doesn't play in Europe when we qualify then what's the point of being in the league at all ?

Our league form before the Intertoto was pretty ropey as well so you can't just blame the euro run for our poor league position.

**Gandhi** · 08/10/2004, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by paudie

How come Shelbourne playing more games, against better teams, in a more important competition hasn't ruined their season then?

If we're aiming to be a professional successful club we should be in some European competition every year.

If the club decides it can't cope with the extra games and doesn't play in Europe when we qualify then what's the point of being in the league at all ?

Our league form before the Intertoto was pretty ropey as well so you can't just blame the euro run for our poor league position.

We're not going to reach a consensus on this and ultimately it will be Brian Lennox's decision, not ours (which is definitely a good thing!!). But as you've brought Shels into it, here's my tuppence worth. Yes they played a lot of matches, but their matches were spread out. They didn't experience a huge backlog of fixtures. They didn't get what we got from Merrion Square - plenty of verbal plaudits and then a revised fixture list that was a complete joke. If there were written guarantees given to the club as regards rearranging fixtures to accommodate us THEN it would be worth considering. Otherwise it would be a significant threat to our chances of challenging for the league next season. Also people have mentioned the money we made out of the whole thing. well just to be pedantic and remind ye, we haven't seen a red cent of the prize money yet and won't till next summer. Yes we got three full houses at home out of it but if we were going well in the league we'd be getting crowds of over 5000 at the Cross for every home game instead of the way it has fallen off. Plus we had the farcical situation of no home games for nearly two months, courtesy of said fixture list and Merrion Square's inability to manage it in any sort of fair or equitable manner. Lennox had to keep finding the cash to pay the lads' wages every week even though there wasn't any money coming from gate receipts. so financially speaking it wasn't all a bowl of roses. Personally I think it EXTREMELY UNLIKELY (sorry for shouting!) that Merrion Square would do anything other than d*** us around again next season, not because of any vendetta against City but simply because their position won't change. They will insist on fixtures being played as soon as possible. I'd love to think otherwise but that's the reality. I don't want our season being derailed again, I want us to be able to focus properly on challenging for the league and thereby qualifying for either the UEFA Cup or the Champions League. We need to keep progressing. Going back into the InterToto Cup, a competition without a future, does not represent progress.

**paudie** · 08/10/2004, 2:15 PM

You made a few good points Gandhi.

However I don't think the club did itself any favours by postponing so many games during the intertoto run.

I think the only game during the run we played was the home one against Bohs. And Dolan was giving out about having to play that!

Like a home game on Saturday, another home game on Tuesday night and an away game in Sweden on Sunday evening is too tough a schedule for a mostly full time first team squad.

I don't know what the ins and outs were of the clubs fixture negotiations with the FAI were. No doubt the FAI didn't do us any favours but the club gave the impression that it was completely focussed on the intertoto while we in in it. Everything else was on the back burner, the arrangement of league games included.

Its a bit rich for the club to then say, when we're out of Europe, "the FAI should have been more helpful with fixtures, even though we didn't give a **** at the time ourselves"

If you look back at this forum during the run there was very little debate about when league games were to be played and the club seemed to fall in to the same trap.

If anything another Intertoto run would give the club a chance to show they've learned from this years mistakes and they'll know now not to take crap from the FAI either.

If we qualify and don't enter it will be like saying "We couldn't cope with being successful in Europe last year. We're not going to try to do better this year, we're going to ignore instead."

Not a great sign of further development of a successful soccer club.

**nice one sham** · 08/10/2004, 2:33 PM

the club would be mad to ever turn down a place in europe. it means so much to the players and fans, i didnt get to travel this year but i hope to next year.
its also one of the best ways to attract investment.

**higgins** · 08/10/2004, 10:31 PM

thanks for the laugh lads !!!

turn down europe for league success??
ha ha ha thats a great one,,,

your not half arrogant are you?

cork were the same as they were last season as this season and the intertoto games didnt ruin anything for you.. As shels have proved you can easily do both. Just because you dont have the players to win you the league doesnt mean you refuse the intertoto in an attept to make you do better in the league??

Are you lot really serious?

**eoinh** · 09/10/2004, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by �anna

My personal view is that (At best) the intertoto is good publicity, but has ruined our season and would do so again. I'd turn it down flat.

Successful clubs dont need to blame extra matchs for a lack of success. If we are to have a proper well run club there is no reason why we cant compete on all fronts. Also, we didnt have an exactly huge run in the cup to distract us in the league.

After last nights league games qualifying for the UEFA cup is a very very realistic option. Let Bohs or the Drogs worry about the Inter-toto.

**thejollyrodger** · 09/10/2004, 12:35 PM

I voted yes but with caution. Thinking about it again though its simply yes.

If a club is striving to be professional then it should be able to play at home and in Europe. Shels have set an example to follow. Most clubs should be trying to emulate Shels. Cork City should be doing better than the inter to to.

The only Cork F.C or any club can improve itself as a team, sponsorship or public profile is in Europe, so they should be jumping at it.

**Gandhi** · 09/10/2004, 3:49 PM

Originally Posted by higgins

thanks for the laugh lads !!!

turn down europe for league success??
ha ha ha thats a great one,,,

your not half arrogant are you?

cork were the same as they were last season as this season and the intertoto games didnt ruin anything for you.. As shels have proved you can easily do both. Just because you dont have the players to win you the league doesnt mean you refuse the intertoto in an attept to make you do better in the league??

Are you lot really serious?

I suppose you're on a wind up? Maybe you're not, I'm not sure whether to take you seriously or not. I've contributed to this thread a few times and I do't recall once saying league success was a foregone conclusion if City avoided the distraction of the intertoto. I think it takes a colossal effort to win the league and the more focused a team are on it the better their chances, also the fewer distractions or difficulties, the better their chances. If you think that's arrogant you're weird

If you are just here to slag off City and say our players aren't good enough well whatever. Banter is always welcome provided it's funny

Better luck next time

**�anna** · 10/10/2004, 1:44 PM

just going back over a few points raised.
1. Shels managed it because the Champions League game are midweek, so they didn't have to cancel any league games, we did- leading to fixture problems etc, which I do believe has messed our season up.
2. The financial benefits of entering the intertoto as opposed to winning the league and being in the champions league the following season? Doubtful I'd say.
3. It has damaged our season, did the same to rovers last year and to pats before that- 3 consecutive years is enough to make ya think.

Anyway, as I was at pains to point out, I'm not against playing in Europe, just playing the Intertoto. Why should we accept a competition thats regarded as second best?

**Colm** · 10/10/2004, 2:39 PM

Originally Posted by �anna

Why should we accept a competition thats regarded as second best?

Well obviously we'd all prefer to be playing in the Champions league or the UEFA cup but in the event that we don't qualify for either then the Inter-toto is a far far better prospect than not playing in Europe at all.