QuoteThat would be a mirror image of the Irish job in fairness...Originally Posted by DeLorean
Coat is in hand...
That would be a mirror image of the Irish job in fairness...
Coat is in hand...
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
Not bad Stu, considering the time of day.
If Trap becomes Ivory Coast boss and leads them to Russia 2018 at 79.... well all you can do is admire his persistence and stamina!
Au I'voire Trap! Bon chance.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Apparently Trap is going around telling everyone he is the new Ivory Coast manager. Wasn't he linked with the same job when he was Ireland manager?
He was soon after he was sacked anyway. Not sure why they'd have any piece of him.
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/world...ain-elephants/
Well, he did his best to turn some of our players into clowns, so he may as well go all the way and finish off the circus.
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
What players did he try and turn in to clowns?
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
I heard a few people refer to someone called Bozo running around in midfield.
He failed thankfully. A good ringmaster doesn't turn acrobats and lion-tamers into clowns. A good coach doesn't turn professional footballers into a psychologically brittle group, lacking in self-belief and weighed down by an inferiority complex, tripping over their big feet whenever a ball comes near them. Circus seals are allowed show better ball skills than our players under Trap!
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
That's refreshing to hear that much/most/all of our football dysfunction was all down to Trap. No doubt, regardless of how much of that dysfunction you attribute to Trap, now that we have a positive manager who is about motivation etc plus ironman Keane, you should be confident that we can expect better qualification campaigns than previous and make the last1624 for Euro 2016 with a game or two to spare?
That is of course, if you are not playing the infinite-value-Paul-get-out-card, that Trap had our best players at their peak, a golden generation gone to waste, etc etc.
I think we can qualify, but I’d happily take it in the last group game. Let's not be greedy!And dysfunction is a good word to use: I’ve said here before that the key member of our squad has to be a psychologist. Trap got our players accepting that were second-best, and could neither aspire to being better than nor deserve better than that, and that’s a team beaten before they take to the field.
Arguably our golden generation peaked as players in the six years after WC2002. If there was a waste of a golden generation, it was Stan’s 2006 appointment that rushed it towards an unfulfilled conclusion. Trap’s first campaign showed promising signs of stability, but he shouldn’t have had to stabilise a team with Duff, Keane, Dunne, Given etc at their peak. By the time 2012 rolled around, peaks were past and stability had turned to sterility.
Trap didn’t get the best out of our best players (positionally and tactically) and persisted with ordinary players – Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Andy Keogh etc – far longer than even our thin pool needed. Forget controversies, players like Liam Lawrence, Hoolahan and Damien Delaney were discarded too quickly: is LL a better right mid than AK, DD a better leftback than SW - probably. Without getting into interminable who-should-have-been-capped-sooner debates, there were more players he could have tried. Sure, some would have been one-cap wonders, but we might also have three competent midfielders sharing 50 caps between them - and giving MON-Roy a selection headache - rather than one Glenn Whelan with over a half ton of appearances.
Plus, while most of our squad players are not superstars, or even continental class (ie key players for their teams in European football) they were generally more competent playing club football than for Ireland – the passing ability, tactical nous and movement required of a bottom Premiership/top Championship player/team are more demanding than the type of game Trap had us play. I read an interview with Coleman somewhere where he said that Moyes prepped Everton to play in three different formations/styles, depending on the phase a game was at – I doubt this is unique, and suggests that good professionals have a greater ability to adapt within a match than Trap realised or cared about. Trap subordinated both ordinary and good players to the diktats of a formation and made them play within themselves. MON and Roy are less likely to do that, I hope.
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
O'Neill's great strength is supposed to be his motivational powers. Already I can see McGeady performing at a better level for us than previously, but beyond McGeady the jury is still out. However, for a guy who has such a reputation for getting the best out of his players I have been seriously disappointed in O'Neill's public utterings of only having a few PL players, not being able to magic up quality players, not seeing any good young ones coming through and seriously looking at the granny rule. It looks like he is making his excuses early, preparing for failure before he fails.I think we can qualify, but I’d happily take it in the last group game. Let's not be greedy!
We are lacking Champions League quality, no doubt, but we have a pool of players who hold their own in the PL and actually impress from time to time, and guys who are definitely among the better Championship players. This is easily good enough to compete with Scotland and Poland. In a one off game we should be able to compete with most good teams and this WC has emphatically put to bed the notion that good teams can't include some mediocre players.
So far I'm disappointed in O'Neill's statements and, like Paul, I haven't seen much in his TV analysis that makes me think he's up to speed on how the game has changed in the last few years. I'm beginning to think Paul Rowan is right and that he's not taking this role as seriously as he might. Just my hunch, not evidence based. But my disappointment in his public assessment of what he has to work with is evidence based. By all means disregard the players who didn't do anything on tour, but what's left is more than decent enough and he shouldn't be making excuses for them.
The instability was always at CM, same for Kerr (- Roy), Stan and then Trap. Keane and Duff were not central midfielders. They were both past their peak, Keane to Liverpool and a slide downwards after, an injury ravaged Duff didn't really play until the Nov 2009 play off, next game after that for him was March 2011. At an equivalent stage in Trap's tenure, going into the first two qualifiers, he had a fixed (later super glued) impression on how we could play effectively with Steven Reid central to everything important. It was impressive and solid but then we lost both Reids, Gibson was given his chances but he didn't adapt so well, looked like a square peg and kept getting injured. What happened after that is another story, but if O'Neill is half as decisive and disciplined as Trap was, he'll start well.I think we can qualify, but I’d happily take it in the last group game. Let's not be greedy!
Arguably our golden generation peaked as players in the six years after WC2002. If there was a waste of a golden generation, it was Stan’s 2006 appointment that rushed it towards an unfulfilled conclusion. Trap’s first campaign showed promising signs of stability, but he shouldn’t have had to stabilise a team with Duff, Keane, Dunne, Given etc at their peak. By the time 2012 rolled around, peaks were past and stability had turned to sterility.
However we are a good way off performing as well as other low life european WC qualifiers, like Greece or Switzerland.
Last edited by geysir; 04/07/2014 at 2:55 PM.
Interesting look back at Trap on this, the 8th anniversary of his hiring.
http://www.the42.ie/trapattoni-made-...96273-Feb2016/
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
Trap brought a constistency for sure but he fell out with and retired way too many players. We're not Brazil for feck's sake!
My other big issue with him was that when Spain were walking through our midfield he stuck rigidly to 4-4-2. There was no Plan B whatsoever. Football had moved on and left him behind by 2012.
Folding my way into the big money!!!
He'd agree with you there.
ha, true. He retired players as if their replacements were readily available all the same
Folding my way into the big money!!!
We did have a Plan B but I think I preferred Plan A.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
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