Sadlier in today's Indo

[Strongbow10]

I'm not sure how true this is. How many Irish Internationals have come through the league in recent seasons ? Did Seamus Coleman add anything to Sligos gate, despite being an obviously talented young player ? Did Kevin Doyle add to Cork, or Pats gates, Keith Fahey at Pats David Forde or James McClean at Derry ? (And remember the reception McClean got when he came on for his debut, from people who mostly wouldn't have had a clue who he was six months beforehand.) Chris Forrestor at Pats is being tipped for great thing at the moment, I haven't been crushed in the stampede to Richmond to see him play.

The reality is that we could have the next Lionel Messi at Pats, or Derry, or Sligo at the moment and people still wouldn't be interested until he gone across the water and legitimised himself. It's sad, but it's the way it is. That's why I've always thought the quality argument is a load of rubbish. Celtic were beaten in Europe tonight (and I know it's only the first leg) by a team who Pats put out two seasons ago. If Kargandy finish the job are all the Celtic fans in Ireland suddenly going to think "Jaysis, Pats must be good after all, think I'll start going to watch them" I think not.

For me the way to attract punters is to inspire a sense of identity with, and ownership of, the team. As to how to do that, well, I never said I have all the answers

Players like McClean, Long, Fahey, Doyle, Forde will never be in the top bracket of players. They simply went to UK to late. The made good careers for themselves but after making an initial splash, they plateau in terms of develeopment. Their glass ceiling is alot lower so to speak. This is mainly due to the level of coaching received in Ireland in their formative years.

Seamus Coleman is the excpetion, he has the makings of a top quality full back.

Players like this in the LOI are the exception to the rule. Fans know this is the exception to the norm. Lets do something to make this more "the norm". As for fans not paying attention even if there was a young Lionel Messi in our league? Such is the gulf in quality of coaching across the water, all of our top young talent have departed the island by the time they are 16.

I personally know myself that the level of coaching is on another planet over there. And keep in mind the UK is seen as one of the more backward countries in terms of new methods.

We simply need to treble the number of coaches (Pro licence qualified). Build from the very bottom.

My point stands about Junior clubs. Someone mentioned Harps being a Junior club. Whats Harps average attendance or general interest level for the last 15 years? a max attendance (on a good day) of between 500-1000? If people are happy to plod along and call this a success and pander to the minority hardcore support rather than try something new then by all means go for it.

[osarusan]

My point about this is much the same as always - even with the LOI maximising its potential, how would it compare to English football, not only in terms of quality of football, but also facilities, infrastrucutre, training, attendances, stability.

Tranmere Rovers, a middle of the road League 1 team, got average crowds of over 6000 last year. Exeter, middle of League 2, had an average of over 4000.

Does the LOI have the potential to ever compete with clubs even at this level? Will we really to keep our best talent at home for any longer, and if they did stay home, would their training be any better? Would they be better as players for it?

[bennocelt]

Finn Harps were a junior team once.

If a club puts in the effort required, then there should be no problems making the step up.

If Mullingar Athletic really put in an effort, joined the league, advertised properly, and got the local public interested then there's no reason as to why it wouldn't work.

The same goes for every junior/intermediate club.

Well Mullingar town are the town team! Ha

[ArdeeBhoy]

The point is (in Eng) ^^^ they have a much bigger population.

And soccer, even allowing for barstoolers/armchair fans, does not even seem the most popular sport in Ireland either? Again unlike its neighbour.

[Sean South]

The league is fine they way it is, stop trying to fix it.

[luiz]

A question: which junior clubs do you think that have a supporting base big enough to enter the League of Ireland? Home Farm's ground is more than good enough for First Division football. I've been to a Glenville X Limerick match and Glenville managed to put a quite decent number of supporters there. I've seen also loads of Sheriff YC shirts around Dublin and there are some other clubs who seem to be getting decent results later (Avondale, for example). I don't know much about the clubs outside Dublin, so, which, if any, could be ready to join the League in a near future? (in case they wanted, of course).

[pineapple stu]

Players like McClean, Long, Fahey, Doyle, Forde will never be in the top bracket of players. They simply went to UK to late.

Is this Keith Fahey who went to England at 15? Or Shane Long who went at 18?

I don't think the likes of Conor Sammon or David Forde made an initial splash and then plateaued; both have been improving consistently in the past few years.

Séamus Coleman isn't an exception; he's proof that your notion that a player can't go from the LoI and become a top, top player is wrong (Kevin Moran and Paul McGrath would be other exceptions). It's hard, of course, but then it's hard to become a top, top player.

[gastric]

In Australia, they did essentially what Sadlier has mooted, picking populated centres where clubs could build support bases and ending years of ethnic tension which has reinvigorated Australian football. There were 8 clubs initially and now there is 10 and two innovations which have helped the league here are a salary cap on clubs and no relegation of clubs which means clubs aren't looking for quick fixes. The biggest difference between here and Ireland is the amount of money that is available to support the franchises.

[ArdeeBhoy]

And a much bigger population...

[Sean South]

a top, top player.

I think you watch too much Sky Sports.

[gustavo]

Shamrock Rovers
Sligo
Cork City
Derry City
Louth Utd
Kerry unknowns(?)
Midlands fc
Dublin City United
St Patricks
Galway athletic.

piece of pi$$.
put small town bitterness & rivalry aside and embrace the future

Agreed - Though would suggest merging Bohemians and Shamrock Rovers - Bohemian Rovers or Bohs for short.

[SwanVsDalton]

Really good, considered response to O'Hara and Sadlier on Back Page Football.

Nails the fallacy of the 'bitter LOI fan' cliche nicely. Probably too much to hope the aforementioned writers think twice of lazily reaching for it next time they need a stick to beat the league with.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Agreed - Though would suggest merging Bohemians and Shamrock Rovers - Bohemian Rovers or Bohs for short.

​'Bhams', surely...

[oriel]

Could also look at merging Dundalk and Drogs, a name just springs to mind, Dundalk Utd, as long as the games are held in Oriel Park and the Drogs fans go to the away end.

[peadar1987]

The league is fine they way it is, stop trying to fix it.

[Macy]

More bs from the Irish media/ commentators, trying to justify their own lack of interest in the league.

There are plenty of good ideas about how things could be improved and made more attractive, but most of them involve money the clubs and the FAI don't have. Nothing stopping central contracts now for example. Tax breaks mentioned earlier in the thread apply to all sports not just rugby, and are taken advantage of now by football players. In fact the tax breaks are keeping decent players out of the league at the moment as they approach retirement as they take advantage of the payback!

Provincial rugby goes back to the 19th century, and while they're effectively clubs themselves now, you can't dismiss that history and extrapolate the success of the provincial "franchise" system to football. It's a totally different set up of the sport, with guaranteed access to the top competitions (at the moment). Long term, it remains to be seen how rugby does - the future of the European cup in the air, French clubs spending bigger and bigger, and perhaps a time when the provinces aren't as strong (Munster’s attendances have dropped off a fair way now they're only pretty good, not brilliant).

Franchise football will not work, and the reality is that in most parts of the country there is only one club. Would "Longford County" established 2014 be anymore appealing than "Longford Town" established 1924 or "Westmeath United" as opposed to "Athlone Town"? The biggest games are the derbies - i.e. the "petty rivalries" that'd be done away with if we had franchise football.

There's a lot of dross spoke about other sports though in terms of attendance too - it's not comparing like with like when looking at GAA counties playing a few games a year and comparing them to a full season league in football. We should accept that the majority of sports fans aren't interested in live sport and deal with it. Live within our means in our niche sport - it really is their loss. There are things that could be done to improve things - an AIL is no silver bullet, but would give us the clubs to put in place a proper structure. And if not that, it's time to look at things like a North/South or East/ West conference split with play offs imo. But they aren't going to make many more go week in, week out short term - a few big games though and money that wouldn't go amiss (long term you'd hope people would see what they're missing when they did turn up).

As I said in another similar thread, the media, media commentators and fans of TV football continually feel the need to justify their choice with bs excuses as to why they don't support the LoI. It says more about them than it does about the LoI and LoI fans.

[bennocelt]

Exactly Macy - its getting boring listening to the excuses at this stage. The league is what it is, probably will remain like this for a good while until someone seriously invests or the fai get their arse in gear. It isnt a bad league but we will never attract the big crowds as we are event junkies and thats it. Franchise football? tut tut

[hoops1]

Séamus Coleman isn't an exception; he's proof that your notion that a player can't go from the LoI and become a top, top player is wrong (Kevin Moran and Paul McGrath would be other exceptions). It's hard, of course, but then it's hard to become a top, top player.

You are forgetting someone!

[pineapple stu]

Ronan Finn hasn't bothered making the jump yet!

The really ironic thing is that articles like Sadlier hurt the league more than anything; it just gives non-LoI fans an excuse not to bother. "Ah sure look; it's a joke. It needs all this done to it. Sure look at Australia/US/random country I know nothing about really. Sure tis obvious. Then it'll be good and I'll go."

[Dodge]

To be fair, a lot of it is perception. The league has been going for 90+ years and every weeks thousands go to see their teams. For most, they go and enjoy themselves (even if sadomasochists). There is FAR too much naval gazing within some LOI circles.

There's loads of problems with the clubs, but there's loads of good points too. Continually focussing on the negative and trying and justify their existence to shtehawks like sadlier who wouldn't **** on the league if he wasn't being paid to watch the games is counter-productive IMO

The clubs would be far better off saying "look we're here, we're not going away, now either join the party or shut up" to all the people who can't wait to see the league fail.

As long as clubs can pay their way, and people get entertainment each week, the league will be fine.

Stop comparing it to GAA or EPL and enjoy it for what it is.