Republic of Ireland V Sweden - Friday, 6th September 2013 - World Cup 2014 Qualifier

[mark12345]

Agree wholeheartedly as I have just posted.

On another far more important subject, who wants to go first on a ten year plan for Irish football?

I would like to know people's thoughts. Might sound corny but the future of Irish football may just look like that team playing in yellow at the Aviva yesterday.

[brine3]

No, Swedish football is complete rubbish. We just made them look good.

Denmark is a template that could be followed. Morten Olsen has reshaped the entire youth system there.

[brine3]

So to fit in Hoolahan, you're going to bring in a player who doesn't want to play for us, drop about the only player capable of scoring goals for us and play a full-back on the wing?

Makes sense.

Gibson wants to play for us, he just doesn't want to play for Trap.

France won the World Cup in 1998 without a striker that could score goals. They got the football right though. The football is more important than Robbie's goals. If Robbie wants to be a team player then he's welcome to be in the team.

A full back on the wing is better than a striker on the wing. If you had been following Joey O'Brien's career you'd know that he started out as a midfielder.

[pineapple stu]

Are you comparing us to France 98? Seriously? And this'll be achieved by bringing in a midfielder who can't get his game with Norwich at the moment?

Right you are Ted.

I'd rather have what we have now than play pretty stuff and lose 2-0 because we don't have anyone to score.

[tricky_colour]

I was just thinking of one particular incident when the Swedes were attacking and there was a man wide in bags of space who really needed to be marked
and Long was just strolling back, the Swedes go a major attack through him, I only remember it vaguely though I need to see it again in context.
It would be wrong to single out Long of course, few of our players covered themselves in glory, I noticed a number of unforced errors, sloppy
passing and giving the ball away, you really cannot afford to do that at this level, or any level really. Not only do we give the ball to them to attack but we lose the chance to attack ourselves, a double whammy, and of course when you do that everyone is out of position going in the other direction.

Of course one of the reason we bypass out midfield is because they struggle to create anything when they get the ball and of course they are prone to giving straight back to the opposition.

Actually it was not Long it was Keane, the Swedes has an extra man out wide on their keeper's left, I could see he represented danger.
I think Keane may actually have pointed to him as if to say he needs marking. I though Keane should have marked him although that would have required him running a bit. The ball was passed to that man, (OK Keane might not have not been able to prevent that), but he passed the ball
all and the ball was passed back to him again and he put in the cross which lead to the first goal.
Had Keane went to close him down immediately I think the first goal could have been prevented.

Of course the Swedes had nearly scored a few minutes earlier due to poor marking. Seems to be a general lack of organisation and too much
ball watching, it is the players how need to be watched, the ball is not going to score by itself!!

[the doc]

Doc, you might be a nice lad, but you are really everything that's wrong with Irish football.

Or perhaps you're only kidding "in Trap we still must trust"?

We have trusted this man right up to the Euros. He promised to change things after that debacle (ie play a different style of football) and did absolutely squat.

For my money all bets should have been off at that point for the likes of Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland and Stokes. Ok all of them had their issues at one time or another but their not going to Poland / Ukraine should have taught them a lesson. And it appears it did as they would all like to come back. But the stubborn old man kept them in the wilderness (can't say 100% what the situation was / is with Ireland but Reid and Stokes should have been back in the squad long ago).

And he persisted with Whelan among other sub standard players when he should have jettisoned them long long ago (remember O'Shea allowing Camoriesi all the room in the world to head the equaliser at Croke Park and then going walkabout for the second Italian goal - and he's still in the team).

So spare us the "in Trap we must trust" even if you are kidding.

Disagree!

Mr Trapattoni has done more good than bad for the Ireland team.

Its too easy to have a go when things don't go as planned.

Pre Euros everyone was a Trap fan, now he's the pantomime villain.

Hero to zero, fans are so fickle.

We need to believe in our manager and trust his decisions.

So yes in Trap we must trust, the same as we must trust in the next manager.

We are Ireland we stand and fall together as one, I make no apologies about that.

[shakermaker1982]

Well he won't be manager for much longer.

If something is broke then people need to point it out so it might get fixed. No point putting a blindfold on in case it rocks the boat.

Sean - I'm sure David O'Leary will select you for the squads....

[IsMiseSean]

Whelan is Whelan. We all know his limitations (can't run, move nor pass a ball forward)

Haha I agree. You'd have to wonder how he calls himself a professional footballer...

[Stuttgart88]

Tbf Doc I don't think it's that the fans are fickle. He steadied things after Stan but the upward momentum stopped then. His home record is quite dreadful.

[tricky_colour]

Clearly you are not reading what I am saying.

I am delighted that Robbie scores goals. That's his positive contribution to the cause. Unfortunately his inability to be a team player is his negative contribution. The team has to carry Robbie. He's a passenger in many ways. If he doesn't score, he contributes nothing. The manager has to weigh up whether his positives outweigh his negatives. Many managers (how many clubs has he gone through?) have come to the conclusion that he is not.

I love football because it's a team game.

As far as I'm concerned the next manager should pick eleven players who are interested in playing as a unit and passing the ball. Being tactically astute, playing possession football and being patient and intelligent.

The best player this team has had in the past 13 years, after Roy Keane, is Damien Duff, make no mistake. We miss him like no other.

Kind of fits in with my last post, yes on the plus side he got the goal, but I think he could have helped prevent their first goal.

[squareball]

Disagree!

Mr Trapattoni has done more good than bad for the Ireland team.

Its too easy to have a go when things don't go as planned.

Pre Euros everyone was a Trap fan, now he's the pantomime villain.

Hero to zero, fans are so fickle.

We need to believe in our manager and trust his decisions.

So yes in Trap we must trust, the same as we must trust in the next manager.

We are Ireland we stand and fall together as one, I make no apologies about that.

Nit everyone was a fan pre Euros most of us knew we played dire football and probably deep down knew we would get found out. There are very few positives to be taken from the way we play. We are set up to not lose the ball around the middle so as not to cough up chances to the opposition but this sacrifices our ability to create them. Traps game plan is so negative, dull and dependent on getting results that he will be rightly caned for not getting the results. The team is going backward in the last number of years and he would already be gone only for the FAI haven't the balls/money to sack him.

McCarthy has been a holding midfielder for Wigan for the last few seasons so could play a more attacking player beside him. Centre midfield has been
the weakest part of this team for far too long. Whelan at best is a squad player for us. He doesn't possess the athleticism to play in Traps system. The subs made last night were a joke when we were chasing the game. What did he think they could do? He needed someone to come on in the middle of the pitch to move the ball quickly into the danger zones ala Hoolahan. Whelan could have been sacrificed for the last 10 to have a real go at getting a goal.

We are not going to win Euro's and World Cup's but at least we can field our best team and be competitive while playing a better brand of football. We are 43rd in the rankings only 2 above Wales and 7 above Scotland who although don't have better players bar Bale try and pass the ball around and are much better to watch at least.

[mark12345]

Tbf Doc I don't think it's that the fans are fickle. He steadied things after Stan but the upward momentum stopped then. His home record is quite dreadful.

Sorry Stutts but I sort of hijacked your post with the following (which just had to come out).



Ten Year Plan For Irish Football

I’ve spent almost half a century worrying and wondering about the Irish team. Far too much of my time and emotions have I invested in them, to the detriment of my career and latterly perhaps my wife and kids. I hope not. But I wouldn’t have it any other way. I will go to the grave wishing and hoping and praying for this team.

I believe we have reached a crossroads. Sure, there have been landmark points in our recent history following poor results (or even good results), but if we’re to change this broken record, the one which has been playing for the last half century, then something drastic needs to be done.

I would like to propose the following for Irish football and those who govern it and play the game in our country.


1. Concorde Serious overtures should be made to the IFA, by the FAI. Why, because our pool of players is small enough on the island without being divided in two. In all likelihood an all-Ireland team will be a non-starter but if some honest talking and negotiations are done then at least there will be a framework there for further discussion down the road. And I think given the current amount of defections to the south from the north, there will be a willing attitude at least among the players themselves.
2. Investment Investment in the domestic game in the Republic? It has to happen but in order for it to occur the current structure needs to be torn down and rebuilt. No right minded investor would spend money on an Irish club at the present time given the lack of growth opportunity. If an Arab investor was to buy out the whole league, would it turn profitable for him or the clubs themselves? I’m not sure it would, given that there is no serious business model to speak of.
3. Coaching. The coaching in Ireland produced the players that played in the Aviva on Friday night. How can those who teach our kids be taught to instruct them properly? This is something which needs to be achieved as soon as possible. Foreign coaches need to be hired to get our kids back to playing proper football rather than the win at all costs physical game. The most important cog in the machine now is the Irish coach. That cog is broken and the game at home will never improve until the standard of coaching improves. The English are also singing from this song sheet.
4. Talent Drain. While no one can demand that a teenager go to this club or that, the FAI need to take it upon themselves to encourage our top kids away from the English game. Whatever technical ability they have is being dashed on the rocks of the Championship or League 1 at present. Irish lads breaking into the Chelsea, Arsenal or Manchester United teams, is a thing of the past. Simply put, when our kids are measured against the world’s best talent they don’t have a chance (because they were poorly coached at home) and are beginning to end up in the lower divisions of English football were their development is stunted. There surely are better options out there in any number of European countries and now the USA.
5. Brand of football.
It’s very simple – the brand of football played by the Irish senior team is unlike that of most international teams (save for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland…and their respective records speak for themselves). We don’t play the game the way it’s supposed to be played which is passing the ball from the back through the middle and holding onto it in tight situations and working it through to the forwards. Irish international football has suffered for forty years now from the malaise which befell the English game – ie, technical ability being bypassed for physical prowess and hundred mile an hour stuff. How far has Irish football fallen? Well, measure us up against Armenia. Measure us up against Greece who were a smaller nation until Euro 2004. And then consider the outcome of the Switzerland – Iceland game this week. Iceland scored four times in Switzerland (and Cyprus scored four times in Portugal recently). Would Ireland be able to score four goals against these countries? Would Ireland be able to score four goals against any country? We all know the answer……and what has happened to us that scoring goals is so foreign to us? Which brings up the brand of football we play. It has to change from the ultra-defensive brand to one which allows our teams a chance to win.

[pineapple stu]

His home record is quite dreadful.

Said I'd quantify that for the craic, so here goes. Competitive games only, going back to Euro 76 (Giles' first campaign).

Manager	P	W	D	L	F	A	% of pts
Giles H	9	6	3	0	16	2	78%
Jack H	22	14	6	2	40	11	73%
Mick H	18	11	6	1	34	8	72%
Trap A	15	8	7	0	23	8	69%
Hand H	12	7	3	2	32	14	67%
Stan H	6	3	3	0	9	2	67%
Kerr H	8	4	3	1	12	5	63%
Jack A	22	9	9	4	29	19	55%
Kerr A	8	3	4	1	7	5	54%
Trap H	16	6	6	4	23	22	50%
Mick A	18	7	4	7	32	22	46%
Stan A	5	1	1	3	6	10	27%
Hand A	11	2	2	7	7	15	24%
Giles A	10	1	2	7	9	15	17%

[Gather round]

I would like to propose the following for Irish football and those who govern it and play the game in our country.

Serious overtures should be made to the IFA, by the FAI. Why, because our pool of players is small enough on the island without being divided in two. In all likelihood an all-Ireland team will be a non-starter but if some honest talking and negotiations are done then at least there will be a framework there for further discussion down the road. And I think given the current amount of defections to the south from the north, there will be a willing attitude at least among the players themselves

You've already got an all-Ireland team, albeit bulked out with players from England and currently Scotland. Your pool of players/ overall population, even if combined with NI's, is similar to say Croatia and Slovenia, who are doing quite nicely separately. They've managed 10 qualifications between them since independence. You aren't going to get what you presumably want but won't spell out, ie the NI team and Irish FA dissolving themselves. What then could you realistically offer in negotiation? Maybe that you wouldn't pick players who'd already appeared in NI adult teams- but obviously that would contradict what you actually want.

Yes, many players from NI aspire to play for the South, and a handful have achieved it in recent years. You don't need any framework or negotiation to provide that, it's already there.

The problem isn't that your pool of potential players is reduced by lack of co-operation with NI. It's that British-style football and its players have obvious limitations. England make quarter finals and not further, the smaller countries rarely look like qualifying. As you broadly say below.

[peadar1987]

Totally agree. Those who talk of an "All-Ireland Team" in the current climate aren't talking about that at all, they're talking about effectively banning the team representing the 6 counties.

[Drumcondra 69er]

My thoughts on the game on my latest blog. Still absolutely gutted....

http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/201...er-has-to.html

[tricky_colour]

Perhaps keep Trap for the away games and get a new man in for the home games, I think we could see this two coach approach appearing
in the Premiership soon. Traps home form is so bad we would be better off approaching those games manageress, or select a manager
from the supporters for each home game based on a lottery, very cheap to do would save the FAI a fortune.

[Grafter]

This change the manager lark is typical home nations media fodder.... if it's not sacking the manager it's manager wants a new contract e.g. Coleman at Wales, feck do u think Coleman should be rewarded for losing to Macedonia last night? But I digress....

Lads, it would be unlikely that we could still qualify but not miraculous! Christ we are way better away from Aviva anyways. Sweden could well feck up or draw against Kazaks on that Astroturf pitch. Either way, beat or draw with Austria and we can look forward to one almighty night in Cologne in October when anything could happen - apologies for my optimism but feck it!

[Paddy Garcia]

Whelan out of the Austria game.

[brine3]

Are you comparing us to France 98?

I knew you'd say that. You're not interested in having a discussion.