I don't think I've ever cared about an Irish team less.
There are lots of things I respect about Trap, even Opus Dei FFS, but how he sets up his team to 'win' (especially v.better teams) is total b*llox and the reason why he must/will go.
A decade in the wilderness beckons, probably.
We had a decade in the wilderness before Trap came along. I am no fan of the way he sets our team up and I think we could do better but the hyperbole needs to end at some point. We're better than we were under Kerr and that will stand to us. I shudder to think what Paul Jewell would have done to this team.
No worse than GT at home. Probably.
An annihilation with Alaba sent off.Originally Posted by Grafter
I don't buy the argument that people are put off by Trap's football. It's an excuse. The crowds were tailing off during Kerr's era and even when crowds were good and McCarthy was playing good football the noise died down when we weren't getting the results. I remember the home game v Switzerland after WC2002 and the atmosphere (even before we conceded) was dire on the back of one loss in Russia, where almost every team loses. Irish football fans are generally only interested in success, unless they're on holiday in which case they'll sing the Fields as we are hammered 4-0.
Anytime I hear any punter or pundit bemoan a lack of passion I automatically dismiss their opinion as worthless. It's just a cliché. It's the inappropriateness of the word "passion" that bugs me. It also shows that the punter / pundit hasn't got the vocabulary or more specifically vision to define or add nuance to the actual issue. I hate the term "holding midfielder" as I think there are many different discrete types of defensive or deep-lying midfielders and I think it's a lazy and unperceptive term (notwithstanding a very credible definition of the term offered here a while back by Charlie D) but my biggest ire is reserved for people whose only comment on a team's performance is "they lacked passion". We didn't get a sniff of the ball against Spain. I'm sure many thought we lacked passion. We lacked Spain's ability.
I think that's it. Talent and professionalism will always trump passion. Does anyone think Sebastian Schweinsteiger is the most patriotic player in the world? Does he want it more than Glenn Whelan? It's impossible to know, but we do know his mixture of ability and effort trumps whatever Glenn can bring, as was borne out by the game in Dublin. On the other hand, we've seen Berbatov completely ineffective against Ireland. He's obviously more talented than Caleb Folan, but who had a bigger impact on the games?
Last edited by Charlie Darwin; 05/09/2013 at 10:38 PM.
I'd say Irish sports fans, not just Irish football fans.
I did a sports marketing course a few years ago. Among the more interesting things I read about was research into the typology of sports fans (temporary fans, local fans, carefree casuals, committed casuals, and up to dysfunctional zealots) but probably THE most pertinent thing was the identified factors determining attachment to a team, including what they call BIRGing (basking in reflected glory - when you feel part of something successful by association). Underdogging is another identified factor but not as significant (that would include most of us)
I debated this with my rugby mates lately. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since 1988 we have only failed to come second in a qualifying group 3 times (or was it more?). Under Kerr we came 4th but in the tightest of groups. Under Stan I still think we came 3rd - and with 17 points? I then researched our 6N performance and disregarding the horrors of the 90s our "golden generation's" 6N performance was pretty poor. OK, some second places were on PD behind France but only 1 Slam (versus Wales' 3) and I think only 1 Championship. I also calculated a 2 year moving average (say we won the 6N one year and came 6th the next, the 2 year average would be 3.5) because a footy campaign is over 2 years H & A, and the footy team did no worse than the rugby team during the last dozen years. Yet, the rugby team are perceived as winners - I'd say because of the provincial success and because we had a nice few years beating England, which is nice for the Mount Anville girls to gloat about down in Kiely's. BIRGing in other words.
This year we came 5th in the 6N, behind Italy. Did David Kelly savage them in The Indo?
(Yes, I effing well do have a bee in my bonnet about this!)
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 05/09/2013 at 10:50 PM.
The Six Nations is a bit more competitive than the average European qualifying group but I think the point stands up fairly well. The success of the provincial game in Ireland will always prop up interest in rugby here, whereas if Irish players aren't playing in the Champions League people will just shift allegiance to their clubs. There are many Irish fans of Liverpool et al who are more interested in whoever their adopted club signs than the success of their national side, or indeed the game on their doorstep. Which is their prerogative, of course, but a problem that rugby and GAA are able to neatly sidestep.
McClean was good in the away game v Sweden. It is going to be difficult but I am hopeful of a win, 4 points out of these two games is a must. I think this squad are a decent group of good pros who do give their all for Ireland and I have great time for them, and I try to get to the friendly games when possible. I am glade the manager has gone for two strikers against Sweden as I believe there could be a few goals for us in the game. It is another question if we can keep it tight at the back.
Pretty good team. Biggest questions are over Whelan but he's always going to start.
Back four look solid on paper.
I still don't think Walters is a winger but there ya go.
COME ON IRELAND!!!
Folding my way into the big money!!!
Geez, sorry I posted it now! When I look at the team the one player I feel who is sorely missed is Gibson. I am not trying to open up a new debate particularly before a massive game, but if he and McCarthy gel in midfield at Everton, I think it will highlight what we are missing.I'd say Irish sports fans, not just Irish football fans.
I did a sports marketing course a few years ago. Among the more interesting things I read about was research into the typology of sports fans (temporary fans, local fans, carefree casuals, committed casuals, and up to dysfunctional zealots) but probably THE most pertinent thing was the identified factors determining attachment to a team, including what they call BIRGing (basking in reflected glory - when you feel part of something successful by association). Underdogging is another identified factor but not as significant (that would include most of us
I debated this with my rugby mates lately. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since 1988 we have only failed to come second in a qualifying group 3 times (or was it more?). Under Kerr we came 4th but in the tightest of groups. Under Stan I still think we came 3rd - and with 17 points? I then researched our 6N performance and disregarding the horrors of the 90s our "golden generation's" 6N performance was pretty poor. OK, some second places were on PD behind France but only 1 Slam (versus Wales' 3) and I think only 1 Championship. I also calculated a 2 year moving average (say we won the 6N one year and came 6th the next, the 2 year average would be 3.5) because a footy campaign is over 2 years H & A, and the footy team did no worse than the rugby team during the last dozen years. Yet, the rugby team are perceived as winners - I'd say because of the provincial success and because we had a nice few years beating England, which is nice for the Mount Anville girls to gloat about down in Kiely's. BIRGing in other words.
This year we came 5th in the 6N, behind Italy. Did David Kelly savage them in The Indo?
(Yes, I effing well do have a bee in my bonnet about this!)
Danny, you asked how I will watch the game, tonight I will find a stream and luckily Wednesday's game is on Setanta. I was just thinking then how lucky we Irish sport lovers abroad are to have Setanta, this weekend we get the GAA and some of the Rabo games, if only they would buy the rights to our home football games it would be perfect!
I'd say they're comparable. Between RWCs England and France often rebuild. Wales and particularly Scotland are very variable and Scotland have been outright week, and Italy, while competitive, should always be beaten. OK, there are no San Marinos, but there are no Germanys or Spains either - unbeatables in other words, and for a large part of the period in question we were the top seed equivalent (or close to it) in many pundits' minds.
Have the ticket threads gone?
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
'GAA always cool', eh?
Horrible, brutish games (especially Gaelic football) with no guile, subtlety or intelligence. All bluster and brute force. A nasty organization with it's roots steeped in bigotry and sectarianism. (And the way the players' socks droop around their ankles looks particularly horrible).
I'm actually feeling OK about tonights game, which I would not have expected a few months ago. The team is nearly as good as it can be, and there are some decent options on the bench if Trap has the necessity (and the desire) to use them. Sweden aren't all that, and we've shown that we can contain their star man, and maybe even outplay them a bit if the team gets a chance. Trap has experimented a little in friendlies, and I do genuinely hope that we go for the win tonight.
I still just can't see the win though, simply because of Trap's record against sides of this level and at home. I think the win will have to come in Austria. Score draw.
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
Wow, don't pull your punches mate, say what you really feel!
I don't particularly like the soccer-field-ploughing element of the GAA, but as far as sports go, I don't mind football or hurling, I'd watch them if they were on, but wouldn't sit at home in a darkened flat streaming Wicklow vs. Sweden on a Friday night.
There are about 15/18k solid Irish fans who will support the team even if Billy Bingham is in charge. That's about the number who turned up for Charlton's first game against Wales and who turn up for "meaningless" friendlies now. Nothing has changed over the past 25 years. There are another 10k who are also devoted to the cause but can't always be relied on to turn up. The rest are the big time or event junkies. C'est la guerre. Doesn't bother me
I don't and never have got this apathy toward the team because of the manager. Your team is your team no matter what. Some of my friends hate Trap with a passion but still turn up and travel away to support Ireland.
As ever on the morning of a match it is the first thing that comes in to my head (after "when is the wife bringing up the breakfast"). Someone said to me recently that we haven't beaten major opposition at home since that famous game against Holland in 2001. A frightening statistic if true. Off to town soon to see the first Swedes strutting around the place and hoping they'll be heading back to Stockholm ""a small town in Norway" with their tails between their legs. I am to catch up with some of them later as I have a friend, who is a Swede and who lives here, and his mates are coming over. They call him a Quisling because he supports Ireland. I won't turn up (no pun intended) for the Swedes if we lose. I feel the tension already as I type this. I can't believe that our journey could be over if we lose this one. No, it won't happen. It will be a famous day. The knives are sharpened for Trap but somehow or other he'll pull the head out of the guillotine just before it comes hurtling down. He might still be stabbed but the wounds won't be fatal. It will be off to Vienna with the usual unreasoned hope and a draw in a game we should have won.
Time to put on the jersey and scarf and meet my friends downtown. My momma always told me there would be days like this...
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
My sons support Liverpool and Everton from our time living there (we lived all over England but while they loved football they never felt a connection to any clubs like they did from when we lived in Liverpool). I can relate to that myself because of all the cities I lived in, no one came close to the Scousers for likeability and friendliness. To this day, I cheer for both clubs. You cannot imagine what our house was like over the last few weeks of that transfer window, but I must admit that I was enjoying the drama myself on sky sports on Monday. It doesn't come close to the excitement I'll get tonight or on Tuesday, but a good night's drama all the same.
I wonder if Irish who were born in Ireland and moved abroad in their 20s are more into the team. Absence makes the heart grow fonder? B/C the bars will be packed today with Irish leaving work early in many cases to watch. Irish ex pats in here anyway are def into it with passion, though i do know one lad who only watches Rugby and openly roots against the soccer team which i don't get.
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
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