FAI Invites First Division Expressions of Interest

**trevy** · 05/05/2014, 11:26 AM

It is hard to understand why the club are in this position so early in the season and a lot of fans are fed up with the board going on the internet comments. It's not easy for them running a club in the current economic climate but surely the budget agreed and approved in the off season by the licensing board should have been right for the season. Our first 3 home crowds were above the normal amount for last season too.

**disgruntled** · 05/05/2014, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by trevy

It is hard to understand why the club are in this position so early in the season and a lot of fans are fed up with the board going on the internet comments. It's not easy for them running a club in the current economic climate but surely the budget agreed and approved in the off season by the licensing board should have been right for the season. Our first 3 home crowds were above the normal amount for last season too.

I'm genuinely sorry to see Waterford in this position again.

I have little time for the way the licencing system is run in this country.
Any accountant worth his salt would have looked through Waterford's budget & seen that it was unsustainable. Due diligence is not being carried out by the licencing board as this type of situation is happening far to often.
The other thing that comes to mind & one which should seriously worry all Waterford fans is that the Waterford board put forward to the licencing authority a budget for the season & are running the club from a second different budget.
If this is the case then Waterford fans need to get rid of the board totally as they obviously haven't learned anything from the previous well documented incidents.

What all Waterford people need to ask themselves is " Do they really want League of Ireland football in the city & if so what are they prepared to do about it" ?
Perhaps they need to go down the road of a fans owned club. If so there is plenty of advice available from people who have gone in this direction.

Only the Waterford fans themselves can answer that question.

**gufcfan** · 05/05/2014, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by disgruntled

Due diligence is not being carried out by the licencing board as this type of situation is happening far to often.

100%. What occurred at Galway United could only have happened with the FAI wilfully ignoring what was going on.

**disgruntled** · 06/05/2014, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by gufcfan

100%. What occurred at Galway United could only have happened with the FAI wilfully ignoring what was going on.

Its the old League of Ireland attitudes all over again.
Make it up as you go along

**Macy** · 06/05/2014, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I seriously think the best thing the FAI could do for the league at this point is hire a retired business studies teacher for eight hours a week and send him around the boards of each club to teach them how to structure a basic household budget.

The FAI should introduce a licencing system, where clubs have to submit a budget for approval before receiving a licence to compete…

Originally Posted by White Horse

The first division is a basket case. The FAI seem intent on closing their eyes to the problem.

Not just the FAI – look at some of the posts in this thread and see that plenty of fans will reject stuff that might help clubs in the first, potentially revitalise the 1st and the teams in it with more promotion and relegation etc. Lots are happy to run with it as is, once they’re in the premier and don’t have to worry about it.

Originally Posted by disgruntled

Its the old League of Ireland attitudes all over again.
Make it up as you go along

FAI are in charge of the league and licencing. A few posters from the FAI finances thread that think Delaney is doing a great job should pay a bit more attention!

**Dodge** · 06/05/2014, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Lots are happy to run with it as is, once they’re in the premier and don’t have to worry about it.

I don't think that's fair tbh. Just because someone is a fan of a Premier Division club doens't mean they can't have opinions on how the league as a whole is run

**Macy** · 06/05/2014, 2:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I don't think that's fair tbh. Just because someone is a fan of a Premier Division club doens't mean they can't have opinions on how the league as a whole is run

I hadn't realised I had to be fair!

I really think a big part of the problem with the 1st is that it's so hard to get out of - clubs/ fans/ committee's get disheartened with another slog with no prospect of promotion (pretty much you have to win it to go up, as premier team usually wins the play off). I've no idea what's going on in Waterford, and I don't think it's an acceptable response, but part of the issue could be the realisation even at this stage they ain't going up this year so they might as well cut costs than chase bucks to support the playing budget. It's the exact consequence that people who argue against a single division league because of no relegation use, only it's a lack of promotion opportunities that causes the same effect.

**Dodge** · 06/05/2014, 3:05 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

It's the exact consequence that people who argue against a single division league because of no relegation use, only it's a lack of promotion opportunities that causes the same effect.

But if every club thought that way in one division league then we'd have 8+ clubs looking to cut costs as they'd have nothing to play for?

I'm happy for more promotion/relegation places but think that clubs can't just argue about economic difficulties 2 months into the season. That's a cop out

**Macy** · 06/05/2014, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

But if every club thought that way in one division league then we'd have 8+ clubs looking to cut costs as they'd have nothing to play for?

I'm happy for more promotion/relegation places but think that clubs can't just argue about economic difficulties 2 months into the season. That's a cop out

I'd prefer more promotion and relegation places to a single division, but when that was suggested there was plenty arguing against, reduce down the places, saying it's too many clubs in the play off mix in the 1st etc. I agree it's a cop out, and it isn't right (and I don't even know if that is the mindset or reasoning) and clearly most clubs don't go about their business in such a way, but I do think perma premier division clubs don't realise just how bad it is in the first! It does show, yet again, what a farce licencing is - will the FAI ever get that bloody right?

**legendz** · 06/05/2014, 5:40 PM

Having gone to Limerick games when they were in the first division, from my experience of it, I wouldn't agree that promotion from the first is an issue. The division was great a few years back when there were some strong teams in it and a gripping promotion push. With the premier re-expanding to 12, it's gotten stronger and a weaker first division was left behind.
At the same time though Macy might have a point. Two up and two down could see more virbrancy of new teams going between the divisions. The Premier was 10 a few years back. Now it's 12, is there any harm in the teams 11th and 12th dropping down with the first division winner promoted and however many is agreeable entering a play-off? All clubs are stakeholders in the game as Delaney put's it. Will the push have to come from clubs for change?

**Ezeikial** · 06/05/2014, 7:32 PM

Originally Posted by legendz

The Premier was 10 a few years back. Now it's 12, is there any harm in the teams 11th and 12th dropping down with the first division winner promoted and however many is agreeable entering a play-off? All clubs are stakeholders in the game as Delaney put's it. Will the push have to come from clubs for change?

Do you think that the 12 PD clubs will push for this change?

Turkeys and Christmas come to mind

**legendz** · 06/05/2014, 8:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ezeikial

Do you think that the 12 PD clubs will push for this change?

Turkeys and Christmas come to mind

lol, the answer I expected!

**Lim till i die** · 06/05/2014, 9:16 PM

Im kinda puzzled by all the first division fans looking to the premier as some kind of panacea.

Id safely say eight of the twelve premier clubs havent a pot to **** in and the other four are a wet weekend from joining them.

Look at Athlone Town playing to micro crowds. Id imagine Limerick are losing our arse this year aswell and the longer it goes on the more worrying itll get.

When teams do go to the wall in this league it tends to be Premier teams.

Why?? Because you wake up one morning and realise that piddly little four figure holes in your first division cash flow have became massive, gaping, six or seven figure chasms in your club budget.

Why?? Because when you get to the promised land of the premier the costs of EVERYTHING needed to compete increase in massive increments that your income will struggle to keep up with. If you choose not to shell out the extra bucks on the team expenditure.side you're an Athlone Town and youre.shagged anyway.

In short, careful what you wish for!!

**Charlie Darwin** · 06/05/2014, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Im kinda puzzled by all the first division fans looking to the premier as some kind of panacea.

Id safely say eight of the twelve premier clubs havent a pot to **** in and the other four are a wet weekend from joining them.

Look at Athlone Town playing to micro crowds. Id imagine Limerick are losing our arse this year aswell and the longer it goes on the more worrying itll get.

When teams do go to the wall in this league it tends to be Premier teams.

Why?? Because you wake up one morning and realise that piddly little four figure holes in your first division cash flow have became massive, gaping, six or seven figure chasms in your club budget.

Why?? Because when you get to the promised land of the premier the costs of EVERYTHING needed to compete increase in massive increments that your income will struggle to keep up with. If you choose not to shell out the extra bucks on the team expenditure.side you're an Athlone Town and youre.shagged anyway.

In short, careful what you wish for!!

Yeah, but why do promoted teams upgrade their squads? Because they have to play to a higher standard. If there were more teams, they'd still be picking from the same pool of players, so it's not like Wexford will suddenly be competing with Bohemians for players. There'll be a more rational distribution than that.

**NeverFeltBetter** · 06/05/2014, 11:02 PM

Stupid question probably, but is there any sign of any interest from any club not already in the LOI to make an application?

Edit: Apart from "Meath FC" or whatever the hell that is.

**Charlie Darwin** · 06/05/2014, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Stupid question probably, but is there any sign of any interest from any club not already in the LOI to make an application?

Edit: Apart from "Meath FC" or whatever the hell that is.

Simple answer, no. Most of the bigger junior clubs are based in Dublin, where there's **** all room for expansion. There's not enough competition in most of the rest of the country whereby a team could rise up on merit. I don't think a new team can really enter the league until there are strong regional leagues where success brings the incentive of progressing to league football. There really doesn't seem to be any hope of that happening.

The alternative would be something similar to Northern Ireland, where the FAI dictates that every league feeds into the pyramid, in which case we'd see Dublin clubs who don't particularly want to be part of the league ending up getting promoted and finding they don't have the income to do it, will have to play on a different day than they're used to and will have to file their accounts like a normal business, none of which they have any interest in doing. And that's before you even get into the fact they'd have to switch over to summer football.

**NeverFeltBetter** · 07/05/2014, 2:20 AM

In related news, the English FA look like they'll be introducing "B" teams into their league pyramid in some capacity as well: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27289819

**Charlie Darwin** · 07/05/2014, 2:26 AM

Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

In related news, the English FA look like they'll be introducing "B" teams into their league pyramid in some capacity as well: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27289819

Same old England, always copying Shamrock Rovers...

In all seriousness, it's hard to see how a B team system in England can do anything except benefit the top teams at the expense of the lower league sides. It's different in Ireland and other smaller European countries where players are on one-year contracts and loans aren't really a realistic option, but in England if you have a player on a three or four-year deal and dozens of clubs willing to take them, there's no reason you'd need a B team except to benefit the top of the pyramid.