FAI Invites First Division Expressions of Interest

**gufcfan** · 26/04/2014, 5:33 PM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

As opposed to the teams already with nothing to play for? Shockingly poor argument against it really.

No promotion, no relegation. Nonsense of an answer imo.

**nigel-harps1954** · 26/04/2014, 7:10 PM

Originally Posted by gufcfan

No promotion, no relegation. Nonsense of an answer imo.

Yet slowly strengthening what's there and giving other teams who haven't a chance something worth playing for. What sense is it for the likes of Cobh to remain in the league at the minute when they're going to stay rooted to the bottom of the First Division anyway, when at least in an extended Premier they'll get a home game every year against the likes of St. Pat's, Shamrock Rovers, Cork City and others who will attract a decent crowd.

The argument can be made for the weakening of the Premier, but the strong teams will remain strong, and they'll remain battling amongst each other for the league title, let the teams with nothing to play for worry about that themselves, besides the greater prize money for finishing higher up the league table being a bit of incentive.

Should the English Premier League be shortened to 10 teams because half the sides in it have nothing to play for? Same to be said for La Liga, Bundesliga, etc. Absolute nonsense.

An extended Premier is more attractive to sponsors, makes derby matches a bit more special, and most importantly, makes everyone equal.

**Dodge** · 26/04/2014, 7:38 PM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Yet slowly strengthening what's there and giving other teams who haven't a chance something worth playing for. What sense is it for the likes of Cobh to remain in the league at the minute when they're going to stay rooted to the bottom of the First Division anyway

As much as sense getting slaughtered by other teams

when at least in an extended Premier they'll get a home game every year against the likes of St. Pat's, Shamrock Rovers, Cork City and others who will attract a decent crowd.

This is the worst argument about a one team division. Bringing an extra 1,000 or so people in will not help how Harps, or any club, is run.

The argument can be made for the weakening of the Premier, but the strong teams will remain strong, and they'll remain battling amongst each other for the league title, let the teams with nothing to play for worry about that themselves, besides the greater prize money for finishing higher up the league table being a bit of incentive.

Are you seriously arguing for a one division league on the basis of "let the teams with nothing to play for worry about that themselves"

Should the English Premier League be shortened to 10 teams because half the sides in it have nothing to play for? Same to be said for La Liga, Bundesliga, etc. Absolute nonsense.

The only nonsense here is you selectively comparing the LOI to the 3 biggest leagues in the world. Look I can do it too; they have relegation/promotion....

An extended Premier is more attractive to sponsors,

What basis do you think it's more attractive to sponsors? You're guessing and talking about your club aren't you. I'll guess that sponsors of other clubs are happy enough with the way it is.

, and most importantly, makes everyone equal.

Football isn't about equality. It's a meritocracy.

**Charlie Darwin** · 26/04/2014, 9:27 PM

Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

I'd imagine they'd look for at least two more reserve teams next year - out of Cork, Pats, Sligo maybe - to get an even ten in the division (if no new clubs come forward that is).

Sligo wouldn't have the numbers for a reserve team I don't think. Cork and Pats would make sense, if Pats can afford it.

**Macy** · 26/04/2014, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by gufcfan

Single-tier LOI would be death-knell of the LOI.

The league survived from 1921 until 1985 as a single division league.

If people really brought into the "giving teams something to play for", there'd be more relegation and promotion places. Have it 3 down from the premier (suck more teams into that) and 3 up from the first. 4th from bottom could play off with 4th in the first as well. Lots of teams with lots to play for, all season.

**nigel-harps1954** · 27/04/2014, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

As much as sense getting slaughtered by other teams

I don't see how this is a given at all.

This is the worst argument about a one team division. Bringing an extra 1,000 or so people in will not help how Harps, or any club, is run.

Never suggested it would help how any club is run, but it would make more games attractive to more teams.

Are you seriously arguing for a one division league on the basis of "let the teams with nothing to play for worry about that themselves"

Selective quoting. Classic foot.ie. My main point is that there's currently half the teams in both leagues that have as good as nothing to play for already. Anyone genuinely believe Athlone won't get relegated now, or anyone genuinely believe Cobh will get promoted? Don't forget Shamrock Rovers B who have nothing to play for since game one.

The only nonsense here is you selectively comparing the LOI to the 3 biggest leagues in the world. Look I can do it too; they have relegation/promotion....

My point is as valid as any of the rest. I only compared the LOI to those leagues because there's still 7 or 8 teams that play for absolutely nothing in each of those leagues, which seems to be the widest used argument against an extended League of Ireland Premier. Irrespective of the strength of those leagues, I could have used any terrible league in the world with a large Premier Division with the same argument.

What basis do you think it's more attractive to sponsors? You're guessing and talking about your club aren't you. I'll guess that sponsors of other clubs are happy enough with the way it is.

I've already stated why it's more attractive. Bigger derby games happening less frequently, wider spread location in the same division. Those two reasons alone make for a more attractive league.

Football isn't about equality. It's a meritocracy.

Of course it is, I do agree, but when things simply aren't working as they are, something has to give.

Try spending a few years in the First Division with St Pat's and you'll automatically realise how desperately bad it is. You honestly have no idea how little anyone cares about it. It simply needs to be scrapped, and the whole League of Ireland revamped.

**Charlie Darwin** · 27/04/2014, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

You honestly have no idea how little anyone cares about it.

If it was a competitive league people would care. Cork and Shels certainly cared when they were battling for promotion. The problem is the general apathy towards Irish soccer.

**Dodge** · 27/04/2014, 1:47 AM

You honestly have no idea how little anyone cares about it. It simply needs to be scrapped, and the whole League of Ireland revamped.

Sounds way too much like 'we can't get promoted, so help us out here' to me

In real terms no one cares about the premier division either.

Do you want revamping, or do you want a simple change to one division? Moving to one league won't help anyone if that's all that happens. There's been loads of tinkering with the league make up

The whole basis for your argument above seems to be 'we're **** with nothing to play for, why can't we be **** with a couple of games against Rovers and Cork?'

**gufcfan** · 27/04/2014, 2:44 AM

I sincerely hope it's against some UEFA rule that you have to have at least one division below the top flight. Then again what are UEFA rules to the FAI...

**Charlie Darwin** · 27/04/2014, 3:30 AM

Originally Posted by gufcfan

I sincerely hope it's against some UEFA rule that you have to have at least one division below the top flight. Then again what are UEFA rules to the FAI...

As far as I know, it's not written in law, but UEFA's policy is that all league systems should have multiple tiers and any deviation from that would cause problems for entering teams into European competition.

**Longfordian** · 27/04/2014, 3:36 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

As far as I know, it's not written in law, but UEFA's policy is that all league systems should have multiple tiers and any deviation from that would cause problems for entering teams into European competition.

I believe they can waive such a rule where the non promotion of certain clubs contravenes the European Convention On Human Rights. Apparently more than eh..8.. years consecutively in such a hellhole breaches the Convention.

**Charlie Darwin** · 27/04/2014, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Longfordian

I believe they can waive such a rule where the non promotion of certain clubs contravenes the European Convention On Human Rights. Apparently more than eh..8.. years consecutively in such a hellhole breaches the Convention.

I believe they can choose not to waive that rule when in such cases where it's funny

**outspoken** · 28/04/2014, 7:45 AM

I would have to agree with dodge that promotion and relegation is part of football and scrapping the first division would take that away. Last seasons play-off campaign was the best I've ever witnessed on terms of both the football on show and the atmosphere and build up around the games. The crowds were impressive too so why take that experience away from supporters even if they do have to watch a lot of sh1te before that, but Trust me it's worth it and that's coming from a fan who saw his team lose in the final!

**nigel-harps1954** · 28/04/2014, 8:26 AM

I'd like to know what the alternatives are then? Including a load of B teams in the First Division? The First Division isn't working as it is. I've been around for several promotions and relegations as a Harps fan, I know the joy of getting promoted, and the devastation of relegation. Obviously a league isn't the same without it, but I feel that it's completely irrelevant when you consider how the First Division is going further and further down the sh!tter as each season passes.

Everyone seems so very opposed to scrapping the First Division, but nobody seems to be able to come up with a better alternative other than adding in more B teams.

**Dodge** · 28/04/2014, 9:12 AM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Everyone seems so very opposed to scrapping the First Division, but nobody seems to be able to come up with a better alternative other than adding in more B teams.

The Premier Division is hardly setting the world on fire. You might want to fix that too while you're searching for answers

**Nesta99** · 28/04/2014, 11:27 AM

Hows about the very original idea of having one league for all and then splitting after one round on merit in to a top ten trophy and a bottom half graveyard - Harps get a visit from the mighty and wealthy and then the mighty and wealthy get to scrap for inclusion at the business end of the season. Those not in the upper section might spend a season in fear of the grim reaper but no more so than those in the 1st division now. And think of all the fun with say Waterford trawling through player registrations if they dont make the top ten or Galway with a stack of DVD's ready to disperse and during the season too! Would win the best soap opera/drama at all the tv awards - and if Shamrock Rovers A and B ended up in the also rans that would BE the bonus feature on the DVD!

Ok maybe not then!

**nigel-harps1954** · 28/04/2014, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

The Premier Division is hardly setting the world on fire. You might want to fix that too while you're searching for answers

The Premier Division is a damn sight better than the First Division, despite it's flaws.

**Dodge** · 28/04/2014, 1:43 PM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

The Premier Division is a damn sight better than the First Division, despite it's flaws.

We're getting back to my point about the better clubs being in the higher division here...

**bluewhitearmy** · 28/04/2014, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

I'd like to know what the alternatives are then? Including a load of B teams in the First Division? The First Division isn't working as it is. I've been around for several promotions and relegations as a Harps fan, I know the joy of getting promoted, and the devastation of relegation. Obviously a league isn't the same without it, but I feel that it's completely irrelevant when you consider how the First Division is going further and further down the sh!tter as each season passes.

Everyone seems so very opposed to scrapping the First Division, but nobody seems to be able to come up with a better alternative other than adding in more B teams.

I'd like to know what actual benefits one league would have?

**Mr A** · 28/04/2014, 2:33 PM

The league is in bad shape- never before have we been in a situation where a reserve side had to be invited in just to make the first division up to eight teams. Survival in the first division is incredibly tough- I know Harps walk a tightrope just to survive year to year. I'm sure it's the same at Waterford, Shelbourne, Wexford, Cobh. Galway are just back and being debt free with major sponsors is a huge advantage while Longford seem to have enough backing to tick over. But no doubt the people running both clubs know how difficult just surviving is- and the scary thing is you don't have to do too much wrong to find yourself in a world of hurt. You only half to fall short once and your club could slip under. And the longer you're down there the harder it gets and the finer the margins become. Certainly the likes of Harps and Waterford are paying for past sins as well as for being in the graveyard- but it's not good when good clubs who have brought a lot to the league are struggling simply not to die.

The irony here is that most of the clubs that the league has lost have actually come from the premier division.

But in any case the depressing thing is the lack of a plan. We know the clubs aren't going to come up with it- each will protect their own interests. The FAI have shown no interest in strategy- simply dealing with each crisis as it arises instead. I don't have all the answers by any means, but it's a sad situation when there is no evidence that the governing body have a vision for the league. Unless hoping the problems go away counts as a vision. Perhaps things will improve if O'Neill can get the national team playing and the financial situation of the FAI improves. But at the moment it seems to me just a matter of time before we lose more clubs.