FAI Invites First Division Expressions of Interest

**Mr A** · 24/09/2013, 3:35 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

It was the threat of Waterford withdrawing, and thus a 7 team division, that really caused the speculation last year. What the FAI and Premier Division clubs don't seem to grasp is that they'll get a single division eventually anyway. When, in their opinion, does it become unviable? 6 teams? 5? If the remaining clubs withdraw because it's too small to be viable, we're left with a single division (and all the supposed problems that are used as excuses against it now) but with no base to work from to re-establish two divisions in the medium term.

Clearly not the intended audience- but I think it's medium term unviable at 8. At 7 you're in disaster territory but might get away with it for one season. If we lose another senior team for whatever reason, it really has to be one league. And the doomsday clock is never too far from midnight at quite a few LOI clubs.

**ATFC-1887** · 24/09/2013, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Who are these seven clubs??

Whichever of Bohs, Bray or Shels is relegated will die before they field in the First Division imo.

Now you've six.

Now look at the Harps and the Cobhs and the Wexfords, are they still viable/interested??

Heard a while back that Wexford were pulling out next year but didn't hear anymore since tbf.

All the problems in Irish football and people consistently bring up this one as some kind of massive stumbling block.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, any club that has a struggle with raising nineteen grand shouldn't even be considering senior football.

It's probably a weeks wages at Shamrock Rovers.

It's 5 to 10 percent of a minimal First Division Budget. (depending on how minimal you want to be)

It's less than the cost of a new car.

I agree but when the prize money for winning the league is only around 2000 more its a joke

**Jofspring** · 24/09/2013, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by ATFC-1887

I agree but when the prize money for winning the league is only around 2000 more its a joke

Add into that the length of time it takes to get the winnings.

**ATFC-1887** · 24/09/2013, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jofspring

Add into that the length of time it takes to get the winnings.

How long did it take yourselves?

**citybone** · 24/09/2013, 5:46 PM

drop three teams and promote one. 10 team Premier League and 9 team first division. Sucks for 3 at the bottom of premier division but the Genesis report suggested 10+10 leagues. We dont have enough clubs to have a bigger premier division when the first division is struggling soo much. It would make the first division more competitive also. Shels vs Bohs for the first division next year? big derby.

**legendz** · 24/09/2013, 7:46 PM

Originally Posted by citybone

drop three teams and promote one. 10 team Premier League and 9 team first division. Sucks for 3 at the bottom of premier division but the Genesis report suggested 10+10 leagues. We dont have enough clubs to have a bigger premier division when the first division is struggling soo much. It would make the first division more competitive also. Shels vs Bohs for the first division next year? big derby.

I can't see the Premier returning to 10 teams. 10 teams was tried for a few years and it's been returned to 12. Though 3 series isn't ideal in terms of even home and away games, playing teams that 4th time a season was always a bit much. I'd have liked to have seen a merger between the first division and A Championship a few years back. You'd have been looking at about 6 A championship clubs along with the 8 first division clubs and a couple of reserve teams split into north and south sections.

In terms of where we are now, I suppose the league isn't far off going the direction of being a single division. If does though, I think consideration should be given to having a regionalised tier below. No surprises I'm going to ask this! Maybe the A Championship in that circumstance should return? Each premier club having to field a reserve team in one of 3 regional leagues split north&west, east and south. Allow any interested new clubs join that league. Have a play-off between the last team in the Premier and the best first team from each of the 3 regional leagues.

**Macy** · 24/09/2013, 9:19 PM

Originally Posted by citybone

drop three teams and promote one. 10 team Premier League and 9 team first division. Sucks for 3 at the bottom of premier division but the Genesis report suggested 10+10 leagues. We dont have enough clubs to have a bigger premier division when the first division is struggling soo much. It would make the first division more competitive also. Shels vs Bohs for the first division next year? big derby.

I'd assume that shels would survive relegation again, but notwithstanding the issues of changing relegation criteria at this stage and the possible implications of that, there'd have to be doubts about bohs surviving relegation. So then we're down to 18 senior clubs.

**Partizan** · 24/09/2013, 9:58 PM

Salthill and Mervue will definitely not be in the LOI next season. I spoke to top officials at both clubs and they are pulling the plug. The Galway FC saga has degenerated into a farce and its highly unlikely that will go ahead. Wexford's position in the League next year is in doubt as well. Last Friday in the RSC, I had a chat with a Youths fan and he told me that they will not be around next March when the 2014 season kicks off.

So that leaves 5 at the moment.

**legendz** · 24/09/2013, 10:13 PM

If Mervue, Salthill and Wexford are not starting next season, I'd be surprised if something isn't sorted to have a team installed into a 16 team Premier Division.

**NeverFeltBetter** · 24/09/2013, 10:21 PM

I really want to see Mervue somehow get to the play-offs and win promotion now. Just to see the looks on everyone's faces.

**Jofspring** · 24/09/2013, 11:05 PM

Its going to be a real **** up if Mervue manage some how to get promoted only to pull out.

**redron** · 24/09/2013, 11:07 PM

Are there any single division leagues in Europe that we can look to as an example or precedent?
I have a feeling that UEFA might have a problem with the lack of promotion/relegation.
And you can't have a proper pyramid structure unless the intermediate leagues align their seasons with the league of ireland (or vice versa).

**nigel-harps1954** · 24/09/2013, 11:51 PM

There's a one team league in Scotland that nobody seems to have a problem with..

**NeverFeltBetter** · 24/09/2013, 11:56 PM

Wales used to be a one tier didn't they?

**ArdeeBhoy** · 25/09/2013, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

There's a one team league in Scotland that nobody seems to have a problem with..

With 4 divisions and now a supposedly integrated pyramid system, a tiny bit like the English system with feeder leagues and all.
If memory serves me right, the Welsh tried to do something similar, albeit it was pretty hard to get into their feeder leagues due to a lack of money and interest.

**Macy** · 25/09/2013, 7:13 AM

Originally Posted by redron

Are there any single division leagues in Europe that we can look to as an example or precedent?
I have a feeling that UEFA might have a problem with the lack of promotion/relegation.
And you can't have a proper pyramid structure unless the intermediate leagues align their seasons with the league of ireland (or vice versa).

It's only relatively recently we had two divisions. But anyway, as with the first now, there would be relegation/ promotion - if someone wants to come up.

**prince20** · 25/09/2013, 8:32 AM

Originally Posted by ATFC-1887

I agree but when the prize money for winning the league is only around 2000 more its a joke

Thats not true.

Winners of the prem "get" €100,000 with total prize money of €241,500
Winners of the first "get" €25,000 with total prize money of €74,000
Combined total of €315,500

How much is the CEO's salary???

**harps1954** · 25/09/2013, 9:19 AM

Originally Posted by prince20

Thats not true.

Winners of the prem "get" €100,000 with total prize money of €241,500
Winners of the first "get" €25,000 with total prize money of €74,000
Combined total of €315,500

How much is the CEO's salary???

So, how much do the FAI put into the prize fund. If we take that it's €19,000 registration to play in the Premier Division (€19k x 12 = €228k) and €10,000 to play in the First Division (€10k x 8 = €80,000), that's a total intake by the FAI of €308,000. Just €7,000 short of what the prize fund is. Add to that the 'fines' for bookings, sending offs, etc. and it won't take them long to put up that €7,000. I reckon each club probably has fines of around €2,000 each on average (likely to be much higher). So, €2,000 x 20 = €40,000. All of a sudden the FAI is €33,000 to the good - probably pays a large percentage of Fran Gavin's wages.

Question again is - how much do the FAI put into the LOI. Marketing is none existent, so it's not there. Alright they have a few office staff but that's about it. Every penny that is given out in prize money comes from the clubs themselves. If the FAI could put in around €250k to the league, at least the clubs could start the season by keeping their registration fees.

As someone said above, the €19k is probably only a weeks wages to a club like Shamrock Rovers playing in the Premier Division. However, €10k to a First Division club like Wexford Youths or Finn Harps (just using them as examples), would probably amount to a months running costs.

When people talk about the Premier not returning to a 10 team league because of having to play teams four times in a season, they are looking at their own clubs in the Premier. What about the clubs in the First Division who have a 28 game league, playing everyone four times, dragged out over a 35 week season? 14 guaranteed homes games a season in 35 weeks.

I want to use one example. Finn Harps played a home game on 15th August against Waterford United. If they had been knocked out of the FAI Cup in the opening round, they would not have played at home again until 20th September. They were lucky that they got home draws in the Cup at the 3rd round and QF stages. They could have been drawn away in each of those games just as easy. Or worse still, they would have had free weekends when the Cup games were being played. With only 8 clubs playing in the QF of the Cup, why the feck was there not a round of fixtures in the FD on QF weekend - chances were that there was not going to be too many of them in the cup at that stage anyway (there was only the one).

The FD is an after-thought for the FAI AND the clubs in the Premier League. Fecking hell, RTE don't even mentioned FD games at the weekend on their sports news. Check the RTE website and try to find the results of last weekend's FD games - they are not there. The national papers don't even give you the FD scores most of the time. Nobody cares about it.

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of a single Division, it's heading that way fast - very fast. If the FAI don't go with it very soon (within the next two seasons), they will get one - and there will only be 10 or 12 clubs around then for it (those that are in the Premier Division). Clubs like Mervue, Salthill and Wexford don't look like they will be around too much longer. Other clubs like Finn Harps, Waterford, Longford and Athlone have a lot to offer the LOI and could easily be part of 16 team Premier League and contribute hugely to it.

**harps1954** · 25/09/2013, 9:52 AM

Just one or two other points I'll like to add.

People talk about no promotion or relegation. When was the last time we had a team relegated from the Premier?

Also, clubs going bust. All the clubs that have gone bust recently done so while they were in the Premier - Monaghan, Dublin City, Sporting Fingal, Galway, Cobh (after their relegation about five years ago), Cork City, Derry City. I know Killkenny and Kildare County have also come and gone as First Division clubs. Some of come back stronger - Cork City II and Derry City II. Others have simply disappeared - Galway, Monaghan, Dublin City, Fingal, Kilkenny and Kildare.

Finally, someone mentioned above about having a one-Division top flight of 12 clubs (as it is now) and regional Divisions below it where clubs could play in a 'A' League type championship whereby clubs could play their way up to the LOI. Isn't that what happened with Salthill and Mervue and this is how they find themselves in the LOI. What happens if the same happened again and we get three clubs from the one City playing in the LOI. Galway couldn's sustain it. What if another club from Limerick were to work their way up - could Limerick sustain two senior clubs. What about another club in Waterford or in Sligo or Donegal? These counties are doing well to try to keep one senior club alive. Or what if another one or two Dublin clubs appeared on the horizon and worked their way up through the regional leagues? You could have a one Division LOI with 75% of the clubs coming from Dublin (or within a 40 or 50 miles radius) and the other 2 or 3 clubs coming from Derry, Limerick and Cork. Is that what we really want.

I'll go back to Finn Harps again. Our nearest away game this season was over 100 miles away. When every away game is over 100 miles away, that impacts hugely on a club's budget in travelling costs alone. It also impacts on a budget as it doesn't help in terms of getting travelling support to come to Finn Park. While some might say, so what, just ask yourself if you are a Bohs, Bray, Shels, Dundalk, Drogheda, Pats, Shamrock Rovers or UCD fan - how many times did your team have to travel more than 100 miles for an away game this season.