Shane Long's smiled after he missed a sitter against Georgia and did the same tonight - really annoys me when he looks so nonchalant after missing a chance..... perhaps he's too busy chewing gum to focus?Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Eye of the Tiger Shane, Eye of the Bloomin' Tiger!
I disagree, I think we do have another finisher, Paddy Madden, you do not rack up the number of goals he got last season if you can't
finish. I have high hopes for him.
Some highlights here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a46HmFy6A80
I think that demonstrates his finishing skill, the ball was a bit behind him but he still got in a good low shot which bounced in front of the keeper and needed a good save (which the keeper could not hold). Would Robbie have done any better?
I though he had another shot but it seems it was a replay.
If he can step up to the mark I think we will be fine, if he can't we will be pushing Robbie on in a wheelchair. (should give him an extra yard of pace)
Had he been on 15 minutes earlier I think I would have been collecting on my bet.
Last edited by tricky_colour; 14/08/2013 at 11:03 PM.
Im starting to think that the arguement of whether to play Long or Keane depends on the quality of the opposition. There is a case to be made for starting Keane against lesser oppostion and Long against stronger teams, as odd as that sounds.
WRT the chance Long had tonight, when he was thru one on one with the keeper and toe poked a shot as a the defending welsh tackle came in, Robbie would have bide his time, let the tackle come in and taken the penalty. Robbie is a smart guy and knows how to outsmart lesser players but I think that better players can deal more comfortably with his movement and pace. Long on the other hand seems to get stuck in a bit more and unsettle players with his presence. Lower ability players might be able to handle this more physical approach, but more seasoned players can get unstuck by the combination of his physicality, pace and skill.
Im not saying that Robbie is only good for lower level teams, his records proves otherwise, but for some reason I feel we are more likely to get a few goals against lower ranked teams with him in the team than Long. On the other side I feel that we are more likely to upset higher ranked teams with Long leading than line, throwing himself around, using his pace and his instinct as shown against England with his goal in Wembly.
Finishing in League One level and at international level are very different things. I really wouldn't rush Madden - he will be a terrific player but he will learn a lot in the Championship.
Ashley Williams (unless it was Ricketts, in which case I'm mistaken) is hardly a lesser player. He's probably good enough to play Champions League. Robbie would have put that shot either side of the goalkeeper and, if he hadn't converted, would have taken the foul anyway. Long just doesn't have Keane's goalscoring ability.
Last edited by Charlie Darwin; 14/08/2013 at 11:21 PM.
Trap Ok with it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23704966
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
All in all you deserved to win. Long had two good chances and to be honest he's normally quite a keen finisher for his club so I'm surprised he missed them. It was a poor display from our point of view. What really got me was the suicidal passing around at the back. We did that against Croatia too so it may actually be Coleman telling them to do it. I really can't fathom why as when you do it that often it becomes utterly predictable, and, as happened tonight, the opposition presses you and inevitably you make mistakes. I swear, at one point I thought we were deliberately trying to lose the game. Thank God for Ashley Williams who was superb as is he always is for Swansea. That block he made about 5 minutes from time was unreal.
Up front we struggled to create much, but that was because when we had the ball there was normally at least 9 dark green shirts behind the ball. You are clearly well organised and that is down to Trappatoni in my view. If a manager can do anything it's organise a team and make sure they know how to defend as a unit, and that everyone knows their jobs. A manager can't legislate for abysmal finishing like Madden and Long tonight, so if that is in any way typical of your finishing then it's easy to see why you keep drawing games. Though I haven't watched many of your qualifiers, admittedly. Either way I'd gladly take Trappatoni as manager any day of the week.
Going back to Wales, there were one or two bright spots for us, as I said Ashley Williams had a good game and was deservedly MoM, and Myhill made some good saves. Jonathan Williams showed some further signs he's going to be a decent player, and Robson-Kanu is improving. But overall a poor performance particularly at the back - Ben Davies, sad to say, is great going forward but like a fish out of water in defence - and to be honest, I don't like our chances in our remaining group games. We will depend on Bale to make us competitive, and if he's not available we will struggle.
"Life is like a hair on a toilet seat. Sooner or later you are bound to get pi$$ed off."
"In this league, a draw is sometimes as good as a win" - Steve Morison
Gotta give credit to the Welsh defence particularly Ashley Williams and the Keeper. No surprise Arsenal are apparently interested in
Williams and Swansea want £10 million for him, a decent sum for a defender. I doubt we will be up against anyone better in the
up coming games, certainly hope not anyway.
He really isn't though. I think this game proved that probably needs 4-5 chances to even register a shot on target. He seems to be one of those players who does better off the bench, when he's observed the opposition's weaknesses and figured out where to go. I think most of his international goals are from substitute appearances.
To be fair to Madden, that's his first ever international game and he was thrown on with 15 minutes to go. Long is just wasteful and is probably better off making room for another, more clinical striker.A manager can't legislate for abysmal finishing like Madden and Long tonight, so if that is in any way typical of your finishing then it's easy to see why you keep drawing games.
I wouldn't want us to sell for £10m. To be honest, there are two players I would not sell from our team at any price: Michu and Williams. Even looking at it objectively, even for a 28 year old that is not enough. If you consider mediocre players like Henderson fetch £20m, Williams is far more important to us than that. The going rate today is just much higher. Arsenal may bid for him but I hope we don't sell.
"Life is like a hair on a toilet seat. Sooner or later you are bound to get pi$$ed off."
"In this league, a draw is sometimes as good as a win" - Steve Morison
Long is better at a long game, running on to balls and hitting teams of the break.
People are not taking Madden seriously enough, he was on only 15 minutes and in that
time he was involved in our 3 best chances.
His assist for Long.
His own shot
And the deflection from that which gave McClean a chance. (OK you might say it was 2 chances really, but I would say 3 chance were there to score).
And I think that was our only 3 shots on target?
Could break Robbie's scoring record.
So if he were on for 90 minutes that could be 3x6=18 chances. Enough for a couple of goals if not 5 or 6.
Except most international teams aren't going to possess colour blindness and literally pass the ball to their opponents deep inside their own half 3-4 times a match.
"Life is like a hair on a toilet seat. Sooner or later you are bound to get pi$$ed off."
"In this league, a draw is sometimes as good as a win" - Steve Morison
They're not? ****, our game plan is ruined
So where are all the 4-5-1 advocates? We played the ball around for the first 20 minutes ok but couldn't muster a shot on goal, in fact a shot at all!! Was "wunderkid" McCarthy playing tonight? Hoolahan was easily knocked off the ball but showed one or two nice touches. Coleman defended well but what happened to his attacking prowess? He seemed to run in to 2 or 3 players and lose possession. Westwood looked fidgety.
All I learned is that as I have been saying to the anti-Keane section for sometime is that without Robbie is that we're like a eunuch in a harem. Lots of promise but no delivery.
So do we stick with 4-5-1 following our 0-0 victory over Wales ? Strangely despite what I said above for the home game yes because we have to try something DIFFERENT at home. How do we fit Robbie in to that system ? That's the conundrum? He doesn't really fit in to that system yet without him scoring is a major issue. I'd stick with 4-4-2 for the away game.
Answers on the back of a postcard please.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
You demand others be serious, but then:
Whether or not Madden will prove to be of Robbie's standard is one thing, but Robbie's also had a five-year head-start on him on the international goal-scoring front. How many goals did Robbie have for us at the age of 23? 18 or something? He was on the verge of passing Niall Quinn's previous record and went on to break said record at the age of 24.Could break Robbie's scoring record.
So if he were on for 90 minutes that could be 3x6=18 chances. Enough for a couple of goals if not 5 or 6.
Irrespective of that, however, I did like the look of Madden. He got himself into the thick of the action immediately and did (help) create (and squander) some dangerous opportunities. Perhaps, had he been a little less enthusiastic in front of goal, he would have gotten his debut goal. Overall, though, it was a very drab affair and Long blowing gilt-edged chances really frustrated me, but I should be used to it by now. Williams and Myhill were also crucial to keeping our tally at zero.
I'd assumed that was just another famous friendly scalp for them until I realised this morning that the game was their re-arranged qualifier. Russia can be hot-and-cold, but still a very impressive result alright. Nice assist from McGinn and Lafferty was lucky not to be sent off towards the end for what was a blatant kick at/trip-up of his opponent: http://rutube.ru/video/9a59167e93888...6e3db10022841/
Meanwhile, for anyone who missed it, you can catch the highlights of our game here:
I suspect Tricky had a couple of shots of vodka and was out late. Give him a pass.
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
Possibly but Long, to be fair, is pretty good at winning penalties himself. Off the top of my head he won penalties against Austria, Arsenal and I think he actually won two on the opening day against Liverpool last season, missing one himself. He should have just finished that chance last night really, it was bouncing perfectly for him and should have been able to put it into the corner.
You got me curious so I checked. He has 9 international goals, 5 from starts and 4 from the bench. One of the goals from his starts was that early penalty against Norway. Your theory holds up pretty well I think given you'd expect to score far more goals from games you've started.
He'd want to get cracking... Robbie had 18 international goals at the same age
Last edited by DeLorean; 15/08/2013 at 12:58 PM.
Maybe I woke up in a pessimistic mood on Thursday morning, but as it stands I will be glad to see the back of Trap. He has actually gone up in my eyes in the last couple of months, due to giving one or two fringe players a chance, but when you add it all up his methods are just abysmal. Sure he was a great manager at one time, and I'll give him the allowance that the players he has at his disposal are rather poor to say the least, but his handling of the Ireland situation just irritates to the extreme.
Take the handling of Hoolahan. He should have been in the team years ago and the only reason he's in it now is down to the clamour for his inclusion among the fans and media. Does that bring back memories of James McCarthy? Also take the inclusion of Paddy Madden. I think Trap displayed to everyone that he didn't even know who Paddy was in a recent interview. Now he's playing a few days later. It's almost as if, if you shout loud enough you'll be included. And then of course there's his continued insistence on playing Whelan in midfield.
When Trap eventually does go down in flames, as he surely will when Sweden and Austria take points from us next month, I will have that image of Whelan's name on every team sheet and the sense of frustration I felt every time.
The handling of Stephen Ireland, you mean? Or his general handling of the entire national team? I'll assume you're not being melodramatic and go with the former. What's your gripe there?
How many years ago? Anyway, he was in the team years ago. Trap gave him his debut in 2008. He played for the 'B' team in 2007. Trap is stubborn; I think you overplay the influence the fans and media might have on his selections.Take the handling of Hoolahan. He should have been in the team years ago and the only reason he's in it now is down to the clamour for his inclusion among the fans and media.
Not really. What was wrong there?Does that bring back memories of James McCarthy?
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 15/08/2013 at 11:42 AM.
Are you seriously slagging a system off after 1 game, not to mention it was an August international so all the players on show last night were more bothered about not getting injured and missing the start of the season for their respective club sides? I imagine advocates of the 4-5-1 (last night was 4-4-1-1) are keen on us using it against teams who are vastly superior to us in skill and ball possession. It would be useful to see how we would fare against Germany/Italy/Russia/Holland etc with a 5 man midfield. That would be the real test of the formation. It won't happen though. It's 4-4-2 for the duation of this campaign.
"If God had meant football to be played in the air, he'd have put grass in the sky." Brian Clough.
You'll NEVER beat the Irish.......you'll just draw with us instead!!!
We played Germany with a five man midfield and were 2-0 down after half an hour.
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