LOI series 20 & 17 - Premier and First division fixtures.

[Dodge]

What are you unsure about?

I'm unsure as to whether there was any FAI findings. I was replying to your post

If you were in the ground with the main body of Pats fans (either in the stand or on the terrace) surely you witnessed the violent behaviour of a number of supporters who "attacked" a security fence in front of the stand?

I did. I hope the locked fence has recovered

The main issue here is what Dundalk FC (and other clubs) can learn about improving Safety and Stewarding, but it should not be inferred that the behaviour of all fans was exemplary

I have yet to hear anybody say otherwise

[Ezeikial]

I did. I hope the locked fence has recovered

Locked fences and sober fans.
They say opposites attract.

[White Horse]

Now we have a situation were the FAI have decided that Dundalk made errors and rather than have the whole league learn from it, it's just dealt with quietly. As I've said a number of complaints were made. Which were upheld and which were dismissed?

Dundalk would have a hard time justifying why terrace supporters were allowed into the away stand section.

It appears that clubs have to assume that all supporters are drunken yobs intend on causing violence. Unfortunately, some Pats fans played up to that stereotype.

[Dodge]

Locked fences and sober fans.
They say opposites attract.

I know the 2 guys who jumped on the fence and neither were drunk. One doesn't drink at all. Such was the chaos that night that nobody was in charge and therefore panic set in. As some one who helped the Pats doctor climb over a wall to see to the injured lad, it's pretty easy to see how some thought that gate was an impediment to proper treatment arriving

Dundalk would have a hard time justifying why terrace supporters were allowed into the away stand section.

What's the justification for not allowing people who paid into the stand having seats and being forced to sit on the stairs long before the steward at the gate went missing?
What's the justification for not allowing people who paid into the stand access to toilets in the stand and instead instructing them to the portaloo on the terrace in the rain?
What's the justification for the stewards not attending to a fan who has falling down in front of him and laughing at him instead?
What's the justification for stewards telling away fans to **** off when they asked for their name?
What's the justification for having no ambulance or even stretcher available to treat injured fans?

EDIT; I don't expect you to answer this. As Ezekial said, the FAI's report would be interesting to see

It appears that clubs have to assume that all supporters are drunken yobs intend on causing violence. Unfortunately, some Pats fans played up to that stereotype.

by not causing any "violence" at all (except to try and open a gate they *believed* was stopping the medical team from coming into the stand)?. Are you trying to suggest there was any other "violence" that night. Caused by "drunken yobs" or not?

[Dodge]

300 Euro

There's a bit in today's Star that claims that's the amount Dundalk were fined

[GCdfc]

What's the justification for not allowing people who paid into the stand having seats and being forced to sit on the stairs long before the steward at the gate went missing?

The bit in bold is new to me as I haven't seen it mentioned before. So the steward as you say "went missing". I don't know where he went but maybe there was something more urgent he was called away to than standing beside a gate. Did the St. Pats fans on the terrace took advantage of an unmanned gate and went into the stand and caused the overcrowding rather than a steward opening the gate?

[GCdfc]

There's a bit in today's Star that claims that's the amount Dundalk were fined

Seems very low for the FAI. Is €300 a standard size of fine?

Maybe they realised that Dundalk had the best interest of St. Pats fans in mind by trying to keep them dry.

[Dodge]

The bit in bold is new to me as I haven't seen it mentioned before. So the steward as you say "went missing". I don't know where he went but maybe there was something more urgent he was called away to than standing beside a gate. Did the St. Pats fans on the terrace took advantage of an unmanned gate and went into the stand and caused the overcrowding rather than a steward opening the gate?

To be clear, the away stand was already overcrowded. Before kick off there were people sitting on the stairs. There were also Pats fans in the 'home' part of the stand behind the barrier that had been placed up to corden off away fans. This was part of the gripe for some (ie there are spare seats there and there are already Pats fans sitting there, can you now allow those sitting on the stairs to sit in those empty seats).

Then towards the end of the first half the steward who was manning the gate from away terrace to away stand went missing. I've no idea why. Some from the terrace (not all) took the opportunity to take shelter in the stand. There wasn't room for them. Some went back out in the rain, Others stayed and by hald time the barrier was 'breached' by some fans allowing them to sit in empty seats behind where the away stand section had been

[CrowdedHouse]

How is the St Pats fan now ?

I hope he gets adequate compensation for his injuries

[Dodge]

How is the St Pats fan now ?

He's up and about in his back brace. Won't be back working for a "few months" (his words)

[White Horse]

Then towards the end of the first half the steward who was manning the gate from away terrace to away stand went missing. I've no idea why. Some from the terrace (not all) took the opportunity to take shelter in the stand. There wasn't room for them. Some went back out in the rain, Others stayed and by hald time the barrier was 'breached' by some fans allowing them to sit in empty seats behind where the away stand section had been

That's the first I've heard of Pats fans breaking into an area that they knew they were not entitled by their tickets to be in.

I had assumed that a steward took pity on their lack of appropriate clothing.

I know that the families who were sitting in the family area invaded by Pats fans complained to the stewards very forcibly. Some of the behaviour and intimidation of Pats fans towards young families was sickening.

Lessons need to be learned by the stewards. These are not fans that can be treated as civilised and responsible people.

Herd them in to the ground, then herd them out.

[Dillonman]

The papers only say they BELIEVE the fine to be between 200-300 euro and that the fine is not directly related to the incident. It also goes on today the FAI have told our new owners to make improvements which it says have already been implemented and that the FAI will send an inspector down in the coming weeks to ensure that these improvements are been implemented.

[Ezeikial]

I know the 2 guys who jumped on the fence and neither were drunk. One doesn't drink at all. Such was the chaos that night that nobody was in charge and therefore panic set in. As some one who helped the Pats doctor climb over a wall to see to the injured lad, it's pretty easy to see how some thought that gate was an impediment to proper treatment arriving

This is disingenuous.

As you well know there were many more then "2 guys" who attacked the security fence and this could easily have escalated into a major incident. Your apparent justification or excusing of this behaviour does you no credit and from my perspective impacts on your credibility about events that evening.

[Charlie Darwin]

How badly did they damage this fence?

[GCdfc]

That's the first I've heard of Pats fans breaking into an area that they knew they were not entitled by their tickets to be in.

That's why I asked the question. So, it seems that the Pats fans were to blame for a lot of the overcrowding! Funny how the truth starts to weed itself out after a while. I hope that the respective clubs and FAI read the eye witness account we got.

[Dodge]

That's the first I've heard of Pats fans breaking into an area that they knew they were not entitled by their tickets to be in.

To be fair, there's quite a few things about the night that you either missed or forgot. At least now you've admitted you weren't aware of all the facts

I know that the families who were sitting in the family area invaded by Pats fans complained to the stewards very forcibly. Some of the behaviour and intimidation of Pats fans towards young families was sickening.

I was there and didn't see any of this. You weren't (clearly as you weren't even aware that the steward wasn't on the gate). There was chanting, and use of bad language. Is that sickening? It wasn't restricted to away fans either way

Lessons need to be learned by the stewards. These are not fans that can be treated as civilised and responsible people.

Just so we're clear, at no stage were any fans treated as civilised and responsible people (including forcing pensioners to climb over fences to sit with their friends)

Herd them in to the ground, then herd them out.

That's clearly the idea in Dundalk already

This is disingenuous.

As you well know there were many more then "2 guys" who attacked the security fence and this could easily have escalated into a major incident. Your apparent justification or excusing of this behaviour does you no credit and from my perspective impacts on your credibility about events that evening.

It was not. 2 guys climbed on the fence for that exact reason. Others may have pushed. You call everyone inviolved a drunken yob and you talk about my credibility? Pathetic

How badly did they damage this fence?

No damage at all. Incident lasted 20-30 seconds and when they were told the locked gate wasn't the reason why the medical team weren't attending the unconscious lad, they backed down

That's why I asked the question. So, it seems that the Pats fans were to blame for a lot of the overcrowding! Funny how the truth starts to weed itself out after a while. I hope that the respective clubs and FAI read the eye witness account we got.

When has the truth been hidden? It seems like you want to believe only this part of my post but not others. Funny that.

For the record, the away stand was full at 7.30 and had people sitting on the stairs. I was sitting in the 'home' part of the stand directly behind the barrier (with plenty of other fans and plenty of other seats).

It seems most Dundalk fans are happy enough to defend the actions of their stewards (even those who admit they weren't aware of many of the facts), so I'll leave it here.

Good luck hosting Shamrock Rovers next week

[GCdfc]

When has the truth been hidden? It seems like you want to believe only this part of my post but not others. Funny that.

For the record, the away stand was full at 7.30 and had people sitting on the stairs. I was sitting in the 'home' part of the stand directly behind the barrier (with plenty of other fans and plenty of other seats).

It seems most Dundalk fans are happy enough to defend the actions of their stewards (even those who admit they weren't aware of many of the facts), so I'll leave it here.

Good luck hosting Shamrock Rovers next week

I am always the first to criticise DFC stewards which is obvious from our forum but there is no taking away from the fact that people who didn't pay for the stand went into it without permission thus making any situation worse. It is possible during matches for home fans to get into the stand when stewards are distracted by other things but you don't see that happening!

[Dodge]

I am always the first to criticise DFC stewards which is obvious from our forum but there is no taking away from the fact that people who didn't pay for the stand went into it without permission thus making any situation worse. It is possible during matches for home fans to get into the stand when stewards are distracted by other things but you don't see that happening!

Again, I've never said differently. The problem already existed though.

And to classify all those who entered as yobs is beyond disingenous (I know you didn't BTW). A 50 year old friend of mine was one who moved in as he saw the crowd move and believed that Dundalk had opened up the stand to all away fans due to the torrential rain that night (as others here believed).

There was no intention on the part of any of those Pats fans to cause trouble, even of they certainly added to the problems that already existed.

[dundalkfc10]

To be fair, there's quite a few things about the night that you either missed or forgot. At least now you've admitted you weren't aware of all the facts


I was there and didn't see any of this. You weren't (clearly as you weren't even aware that the steward wasn't on the gate). There was chanting, and use of bad language. Is that sickening? It wasn't restricted to away fans either way


Just so we're clear, at no stage were any fans treated as civilised and responsible people (including forcing pensioners to climb over fences to sit with their friends)


That's clearly the idea in Dundalk already


It was not. 2 guys climbed on the fence for that exact reason. Others may have pushed. You call everyone inviolved a drunken yob and you talk about my credibility? Pathetic



No damage at all. Incident lasted 20-30 seconds and when they were told the locked gate wasn't the reason why the medical team weren't attending the unconscious lad, they backed down



When has the truth been hidden? It seems like you want to believe only this part of my post but not others. Funny that.

For the record, the away stand was full at 7.30 and had people sitting on the stairs. I was sitting in the 'home' part of the stand directly behind the barrier (with plenty of other fans and plenty of other seats).

It seems most Dundalk fans are happy enough to defend the actions of their stewards (even those who admit they weren't aware of many of the facts), so I'll leave it here.

Good luck hosting Shamrock Rovers next week

By the sounds of things, we wont have too many of them to deal with.

Most of their supporters buses they are boycotting

The less of them the better

[avvenalaf]

Listen, lads - just build a bridge - and get over it.