It was disingenuous of you to try to give the impression that there were only two fans involved. "Others may have pushed" is more pedantic nonsense. It is not the most important part of the events of that evening, but your attempts to minimise and justify this violent rampage does you no credit
Yet again, you are incorrect about your assertion that I called "everyone involved a drunken yob".
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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And how many Dundalk fans have you spoken to in this whole quest you have undertaken from the accident. I think you will find that MOST of us think our stewards are useless and wont defend them for any actions. Take for example, they will take a can of one chap causing no problems but then wont go into the hardcore areas of the ground to take glass bottles off drunken idiots.
I think you would find it hard to find a reasonable Dundalk fan who wouldn't describe our stewards as useful as bulls with tits, are as subtle as bull-dozers and have cop on. I am miffed that no statement has been made or publicised about this by DFC or the fAI is they have their own investigation and also what remedies or if any are in place to ensure that a situation like this doesn't arise again. To make it clear we all want OP as a top stadia with the best facilities that can be offered but unfortunately we are were we are, due to lack of investment in the club even prior to the Matthews era that we are hurting now because of it. I don't know if even a small investment of a few thousand in an Awning for the away tce would of helped or even stopped yer man falling but I doubt it would of fuelled the fire so to speak. I hope the club release a statement to inform Dundalk supporters of their plans. none of us want to see any loi fan injured
Last edited by jinxy lilywhite; 25/07/2013 at 9:47 PM.
Long Live King Kenny
Its all a bit of a fudge. Only a limited amount of stand tickets are sold to away fans, when they run out thats it terrace only so the error could not be in over selling stand tickets so how did the overcrowding occur even before the match - a valid assumption is that people without stand tickets entered that area. As there were available seats in the home section on the balance of things it looks like this initial overcrowding was caused by away fans. Dundalk stewarding obviously failed here by not checking tickets or by going awol and allowing the oppertunist take a seat in the stand.
Tensions due to this overcrowding were running high so a more restrictive approach causes things like directing people away to toilets on the terrace rather than usually having stand toilets available to away fans.
A dangerous but well intentioned decision exaccerbated the situation in allowing people into a covered area.
Fan gets injured and security are slow to react not realising the seriousness of his condition also very poor further increasing tempers. In an attempt to get help angry and panicking friends of the injured lad started pulling and jumping on a security gate that leads to the players and officials area. The stewards on that gate are unaware of the injured supporter and interpret this behaviour as yobbish and not untypical of the sort of behaviour of some people when their side loses, lots of agression, swearing trying to forcefully open the gate (which as it happend is a premanent replacement gate for a barrier that shamrock rovers broke through after being beaten 5-1 few seasons back).
Such raised tension and anger lead on the night to allegation after allegation via all social media, and then the counter allegations, people questioning who was where, what was seen, exaggerations, finger pointing...........all to no avail as the only thing to do was to wait on an independent report of 'facts'. Now that this hasnt happened we are back to to the allegation/counter allegation. Point scoring on semantics is creeping in (Dodge you you say some people may have been pushing the gate, so you are not totally sure about that so you too are not aware of all of the facts).
If the fine is as reported €300 this indicates that where ever fault lies for Dundalk it is at the lower end of the scale which does not equate to the level of outrage from Pats fans which we still cannot consider as totally unjustified due to the silence from FAI, Dundalk and even St Pats. If there is a civil action pending is there a reason there is minimal response to findings and fines?
It needs concluding but again if as reported the FAI have made recommendations for changes at Oriel to improve supporter safety, this has been implemented and the FAI will make further iinspections well then isnt this what we all wanted? - for something like this never to happen again. Unless of course some people were looking for their pound of flesh and they have been disappointed.
Anyhow the situation the arised has been revised and changes have been made and thats the bottom line now!!
Last edited by Nesta99; 26/07/2013 at 2:16 PM.
Some pretty big assumptions there. The steward was on the gate between terrace and stand until about 20 minutes into the first half. The place was full at 7.30. Are you putting all the pre-match over crowding on him? Or maybe Dundalk just couldn't say no to the extra fivers.
This isn't true. The toilets thing happend quite early in the evening. The away fans couldn't access them because of the barrier, not just because of stewards actionsTensions due to this overcrowding were running high so a more restrictive approach causes things like directing people away to toilets on the terrace rather than usually having stand toilets available to away fans.
What decision was this?A dangerous but well intentioned decision exaccerbated the situation in allowing people into a covered area.
There was no steward on the gate and the fans who tried to open it were already on the inside (ie the opposit side of the away terrace) so that pretty much nullifies all your points there...In an attempt to get help angry and panicking friends of the injured lad started pulling and jumping on a security gate that leads to the players and officials area. The stewards on that gate are unaware of the injured supporter and interpret this behaviour as yobbish and not untypical of the sort of behaviour of some people when their side loses, lots of agression, swearing trying to forcefully open the gate (which as it happend is a premanent replacement gate for a barrier that shamrock rovers broke through after being beaten 5-1 few seasons back).
People did try and push the gate. The "may" part was because I simply couldn't believe someone would try and categorise that as violent behaviourPoint scoring on semantics is creeping in (Dodge you you say some people may have been pushing the gate, so you are not totally sure about that so you too are not aware of all of the facts).
St Pats have not been informed of any sanction by the FAI (as of today). As neither dundalk nor the FAI have commented on the fine amount you can believe what you like about whether complaints were justified or notIf the fine is as reported €300 this indicates that where ever fault lies for Dundalk it is at the lower end of the scale which does not equate to the level of outrage from Pats fans which we still cannot consider as totally unjustified due to the silence from FAI, Dundalk and even St Pats.
But how will we know? We all know what a sham licensing is. Are you trying to suggest the FAI don't cover crap up?It needs concluding but again if as reported the FAI have made recommendations for changes at Oriel to improve supporter safety, this has been implemented and the FAI will make further iinspections well then isnt this what we all wanted? - for something like this never to happen again.
Do you honestly believe this is the case and why do you think it is that Pats and ROvers fans are (seperately) discussing boycotts of Oriel Park. I understand some Rovers supporters clubs are aleady doing soUnless of course some people were looking for their pound of flesh and they have been disappointed.
Last edited by Dodge; 26/07/2013 at 3:16 PM.
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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The away section is ****e but you are paying less than anywhere else, you know what you are getting! Rovers can boycott what they like as i'm sure If they were topping the table they would just as quick to boycott, the way their attendances are falling off in tallaght maybe there is a general boycott. Maybe you can organise a solidarity movement with them. If we could afford it we would have a nice tidy 8k all seater ground with padded seats and marble toilets for all our esteemed guests. But to answer your question i do think that you hoped that Dundalk would get a hefty fine and serious sanction on the away section of the ground and then all the wailing and gnashing of teeth would have been justified and people coud have tweeted about it till their hearts content.
alas i shall say one again.... the situation that arised has been revised and changes have been made and thats the bottom line now..so end of! If i am to believe the papers
Last edited by Nesta99; 26/07/2013 at 8:03 PM.
Simple as that so. Even those in that away stand
Do you realise how petty this is when they're still averaging twice what you're getting (and Pats too...)?Rovers can boycott what they like as i'm sure If they were topping the table they would just as quick to boycott, the way their attendances are falling off in tallaght maybe there is a general boycott.
That's pathetic. Why would I do single out Dundalk? Get a gripBut to answer your question i do think that you hoped that Dundalk would get a hefty fine and serious sanction on the away section of the ground and then all the wailing and gnashing of teeth would have been justified and people coud have tweeted about it till their hearts content.
You keep saying end of, and you keep posting...alas i shall say one again.... the situation that arised has been revised and changes have been made and thats the bottom line now..so end of!
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
A retort to your selective interpretations of what is being discussed or patronising tones in your posts why not reply? As the all knowing all seeing Oracle i thought you might address some issues that might help clarify things in the absence of findings by the FAI, for whom its is done and dusted. I can be flipant about boycotts and have a swipe at falling attendances without it being a ****ing contest re average attendances im not taking any moral high ground. People felt wronged by what had happened in Oriel and im sure they wanted to see proper sanction, it didnt happen to sufficiently appease, i never said that you were singling out Dundalk!*(ok reading back i phrased poorly - by you i meant St Pats rather than just Dodge specificially)* What about those in that away stand? Avoiding giving an opinion or addressing the relevant questions above and resorting to a bit of bitching once again says more than what you actually have said with substance.
Last edited by Nesta99; 26/07/2013 at 8:05 PM.
Does anybody have an update on the condition of the gate?
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