If not now, then when?

[hoops1]

What ever about LOI players being good enough or not good enough to be included in the International Squads, there is zero attempt to bring them up to standard. Why cant 4 or 5 of the most promising young LOI players not even be allowed train with the senior squads for even the friendly matches.
Availing of top coaching, training and tactical knowledge. It wouldnt be that costly and if any of these players did make it to England they would have some sort of experience behind them.

[peadar1987]

Peadar, the Baltic sides would maybe be a bit too tough, a Baltic League side maybe, and if the LOI and FAI got it right, they'd have a fair amount of business support. The difficulty they will face is the clubs (as gufcfan hinted at), though if the dates get set for a 4 year period, it makes sense. Would love to see 2 fixtures a year and it just takes organisation, and it can't be 1 off and little sops to the club.

I suppose getting absolutely spanked wouldn't be great for the image of the LOI (I bow to your superior knowledge of Eastern European football), but ideally you'd want a team who were big enough to draw a crowd, as opposed to getting in San Marino, Liechtenstein or Andorra. It would be a balancing act I suppose. I was originally thinking Poland for maximum crowd-pulling potential, but they would wipe the floor with an LOI team.

I'd have no problem with a league select in principle, but it would be difficult to get the players released from their clubs for it, and I think the prestige of some sort of representative national side would be better at getting people through the turnstiles.

[pineapple stu]

What ever about LOI players being good enough or not good enough to be included in the International Squads, there is zero attempt to bring them up to standard. Why cant 4 or 5 of the most promising young LOI players not even be allowed train with the senior squads for even the friendly matches.
Availing of top coaching, training and tactical knowledge. It wouldnt be that costly and if any of these players did make it to England they would have some sort of experience behind them.

You can't go hinder the national team by making them train with some sub-standard players just in case it suddenly made the league take off or something. If they're good enough, they'll progress. Unfortunately, progression does tend to mean going to England.

I honestly don't see what people think calling two players up to a friendly twice or three times a year is going to achieve.

[Spudulika]

I suppose getting absolutely spanked wouldn't be great for the image of the LOI (I bow to your superior knowledge of Eastern European football), but ideally you'd want a team who were big enough to draw a crowd, as opposed to getting in San Marino, Liechtenstein or Andorra. It would be a balancing act I suppose. I was originally thinking Poland for maximum crowd-pulling potential, but they would wipe the floor with an LOI team.

I'd have no problem with a league select in principle, but it would be difficult to get the players released from their clubs for it, and I think the prestige of some sort of representative national side would be better at getting people through the turnstiles.

Peadar you have the right idea (how it'll make money as well as sense) and in Poland you're right, and Lithuania and Latvia, though it'd need to be League XI's.
http://www.epfl-europeanleagues.com/...ndly_match.htm

I wanted to get down to this but had just come back to the country and my colleague went. Astrakhan's a hole at the best of times and playing it there was purely down to Gazprom's backing of it, but if it was in Moscow (at Streltsov for example) it'd have brought in 5-8,000 easy and made money on it's own. It was 2nd tier Russia vs 2nd tier Italy and it really did drum up interest and the local lads were close to the pace of a very intense Italian team.

Now let's say that Ireland play the Virsliga (Latvia) XI in May here and in September go over there and play them. It would pay for itself, give players a chance to shine and remember that you'd have our boys going up against half a dozen (a least) senior internationals and would be a marker. The next year it can switch to Lithuania, the year after Poland and so on. This is something for LOI players to use as a showcase and if the FAI/LOI compensated clubs for players going on duty, as well as throw a few quid at the players themselves, it would be great. Marketed and organised well with a set plan for 5 years means it can grow. Not just let players off to be slaughtered by major club sides.

[nigel-harps1954]

if the FAI/LOI compensated clubs for players going on duty, as well as throw a few quid at the players themselves, it would be great. Marketed and organised well with a set plan for 5 years means it can grow.

I was paying close attention and thinking it could work until I got this far....

[peadar1987]

Peadar you have the right idea (how it'll make money as well as sense) and in Poland you're right, and Lithuania and Latvia, though it'd need to be League XI's.
http://www.epfl-europeanleagues.com/...ndly_match.htm

I wanted to get down to this but had just come back to the country and my colleague went. Astrakhan's a hole at the best of times and playing it there was purely down to Gazprom's backing of it, but if it was in Moscow (at Streltsov for example) it'd have brought in 5-8,000 easy and made money on it's own. It was 2nd tier Russia vs 2nd tier Italy and it really did drum up interest and the local lads were close to the pace of a very intense Italian team.

Now let's say that Ireland play the Virsliga (Latvia) XI in May here and in September go over there and play them. It would pay for itself, give players a chance to shine and remember that you'd have our boys going up against half a dozen (a least) senior internationals and would be a marker. The next year it can switch to Lithuania, the year after Poland and so on. This is something for LOI players to use as a showcase and if the FAI/LOI compensated clubs for players going on duty, as well as throw a few quid at the players themselves, it would be great. Marketed and organised well with a set plan for 5 years means it can grow. Not just let players off to be slaughtered by major club sides.

Exactly. To be honest, putting the players in an Ireland jersey would just be a nice thing for the lads selected, and a gimmick to draw in the Olé Olé brigade. But there's nothing wrong with a gimmick if it gets money and publicity for the LOI. And it would give the LOI players a chance to work with the coaching staff of the national side, who should in theory be among the best in the country.

Might email the FAI about it actually, it couldn't hurt, even if it probably won't lead to anything.

[Spudulika]

I was paying close attention and thinking it could work until I got this far....

Nigel, all I'm thinking is - smart orse! And belated congrats on the wee one!

Peadar, you're right about getting the Ole Ole Brigade in and I know that the LOI/FAI/PFAI will be picking up on this thread (they seem to lurk at all corners) so if an email lands, they'd be mad not to explore it. It would bring them such kudos and it removes any opportunity for LOI fans to whinge about being neglected. If Tallaght or wherever wasn't full for such matches, then it shows the depth of support for the league. It would be a great way to market players further afield.

[DannyInvincible]

What ever about LOI players being good enough or not good enough to be included in the International Squads, there is zero attempt to bring them up to standard.

Exactly. Players (such as Green/"some English johnny-come-lately") who make our squad and appear to be getting a bit of a raw deal from the public/press aren't to blame for the lack of opportunities accorded to League of Ireland players at international level. Such players are selected on merit rather than at the expense of home-based players, and if the League of Ireland was of a high enough standard, we'd see players from the league feature internationally more regularly. We don't because they're not up to it. So, who is to blame? Who is shirking their duties and obligations? The blame for the disconnect and lack of opportunity lies not even with the international manager - his job is to win by picking the best team he feels is available to him - but squarely with the FAI, who, in spite of their patronage in name, have shamefully neglected the league's development. Our international team's traditional "professional" link is now with Britain and British clubs due to the lack of a proper development/pyramid structure in Ireland. The answer lies not in offering sentimental token gestures either, but in overhauling the development infrastructure of the game in Ireland.

[hoops1]

You can't go hinder the national team by making them train with some sub-standard players just in case it suddenly made the league take off or something. If they're good enough, they'll progress. Unfortunately, progression does tend to mean going to England.

I honestly don't see what people think calling two players up to a friendly twice or three times a year is going to achieve.

Have you watched the Irish team over the last few years? Calling up our most promising players to experience the International set up is not going to hinder them one bit. The players in the squad plus Trapp are doing a good enough job hindering themselves.

The player pool in this country is too small to be disgarding its National League. The players in the International team are not that good and the players in the top LOI clubs are not that bad.

This country is amazingly narrow minded when it comes to working together.
The schoolboy clubs dont help the national league teams, the national league teams dont help the schoolboy clubs and in turn cant help the International team. The International team is of value to nobody but itself.

We have 3 strands of the game that only have their own interests at heart.

What you get is a mish mash of rubbish.
If Trap or any of our International managers were serious about Irish football, they would be sorting out all levels.
Letting our most promising young players see how its done at the supposed top level would not solve the leagues problems its only a small thing but at least it would be something.
But we must keep them away from the Interantional team because if they did get access to the camp we might end up getting spanked in all our games in a tournament or walloped by one of the big guns in one of our qualifiers.

If boring people to death and scrapping qualification every now and then is the height of ambition you wont be dissapointed.

People need to be very clear on one thing. Making the national league a success is the key to improving the International team. Until we come around to this way of thinking we will never improve.
That and smashing the strangle hold the DDSL and its clubs have over football in this country a close second

[osarusan]

So, who is to blame? Who is shirking their duties and obligations? The blame for the disconnect and lack of opportunity lies not even with the international manager - his job is to win by picking the best team he feels is available to him - but squarely with the FAI, who, in spite of their patronage in name, have shamefully neglected the league's development. Our international team's traditional "professional" link is now with Britain and British clubs due to the lack of a proper development/pyramid structure in Ireland. The answer lies not in offering sentimental token gestures either, but in overhauling the development infrastructure of the game in Ireland.

All true, but this is hardly news to people on this forum.

[BonnieShels]

Have you watched the Irish team over the last few years? Calling up our most promising players to experience the International set up is not going to hinder them one bit. The players in the squad plus Trapp are doing a good enough job hindering themselves.

The player pool in this country is too small to be disgarding its National League. The players in the International team are not that good and the players in the top LOI clubs are not that bad.

This country is amazingly narrow minded when it comes to working together.
The schoolboy clubs dont help the national league teams, the national league teams dont help the schoolboy clubs and in turn cant help the International team. The International team is of value to nobody but itself.

We have 3 strands of the game that only have their own interests at heart.

What you get is a mish mash of rubbish.
If Trap or any of our International managers were serious about Irish football, they would be sorting out all levels.
Letting our most promising young players see how its done at the supposed top level would not solve the leagues problems its only a small thing but at least it would be something.
But we must keep them away from the Interantional team because if they did get access to the camp we might end up getting spanked in all our games in a tournament or walloped by one of the big guns in one of our qualifiers.

If boring people to death and scrapping qualification every now and then is the height of ambition you wont be dissapointed.

People need to be very clear on one thing. Making the national league a success is the key to improving the International team. Until we come around to this way of thinking we will never improve.
That and smashing the strangle hold the DDSL and its clubs have over football in this country a close second

Great post.

[Straightstory]

Yeah - super post. Strange idea that working with 'inferior' players somehow makes training less effective. (Although, if there's any truth in it, it may be another reason not to call up Paul Green...)

[hoops1]

Yeah - super post. Strange idea that working with 'inferior' players somehow makes training less effective. (Although, if there's any truth in it, it may be another reason not to call up Paul Green...)

Lets carry on doing what we are doing. Sure thats working brilliantly.
You are missing the point. Unless there is co-operation and direction given across all strands. Drawing 0-0 with Sweden is always going to be seen as a good result.
Until the schoolboy and National league issues are rectified. The Internaitonal team are going to have to help

[peadar1987]

Have you watched the Irish team over the last few years? Calling up our most promising players to experience the International set up is not going to hinder them one bit. The players in the squad plus Trapp are doing a good enough job hindering themselves.

The player pool in this country is too small to be disgarding its National League. The players in the International team are not that good and the players in the top LOI clubs are not that bad.

This country is amazingly narrow minded when it comes to working together.
The schoolboy clubs dont help the national league teams, the national league teams dont help the schoolboy clubs and in turn cant help the International team. The International team is of value to nobody but itself.

We have 3 strands of the game that only have their own interests at heart.

What you get is a mish mash of rubbish.
If Trap or any of our International managers were serious about Irish football, they would be sorting out all levels.
Letting our most promising young players see how its done at the supposed top level would not solve the leagues problems its only a small thing but at least it would be something.
But we must keep them away from the Interantional team because if they did get access to the camp we might end up getting spanked in all our games in a tournament or walloped by one of the big guns in one of our qualifiers.

If boring people to death and scrapping qualification every now and then is the height of ambition you wont be dissapointed.

People need to be very clear on one thing. Making the national league a success is the key to improving the International team. Until we come around to this way of thinking we will never improve.
That and smashing the strangle hold the DDSL and its clubs have over football in this country a close second

I'd agree with pretty much all of your points in here, but don't think that calling up "token" players to the national squad is the way to go about improving the national league.

If an LOI player is good enough, they they definitely should not be overlooked. There have been a few over the years. Someone mentioned Bermingham a while back, and for a short bit, it looked like Conor Powell might be an option. If players who aren't quite good enough are forced into the squad though, I think that's just going to create resentment, and the last thing the LOI needs is any more resentment against it!!

[osarusan]

If an LOI player is good enough, they they definitely should not be overlooked. There have been a few over the years.

The problem is that there isn't really any way to know if they're good enough or not by their performances in the LOI. We can all think of a few players who were top class in the LOI but who failed (relatively or totally) at lower levels in England.

The standard of player they play against in LOI just isn't good enough for the senior team management to make informed decisions about their international potential.

[pineapple stu]

Have you watched the Irish team over the last few years? Calling up our most promising players to experience the International set up is not going to hinder them one bit. The players in the squad plus Trapp are doing a good enough job hindering themselves.

A lot of what you have in that post is spot on.

None of it is going to be fixed by a couple of token call-ups though.

And I'd argue it's more important to focus on the coaches rather than the players. Improve a player, and you improve one player. Improve a coach, and you improve lots of players.