Squad for end of season games

**Charlie Darwin** · 14/05/2013, 3:00 PM

So to summarise, from the squad of 29, 8 are graduates of the League of Ireland: Forde, Delaney, Coleman, McClean, Hoolahan, Meyler, Long, Sammon.

7 were born in England (Westwood, St Ledger, R Keogh, Green, Pilkington, Walters, Cox) and 2 in Scotland (McGeady, McCarthy), meaning almost half of those 20 players born and reared in Ireland came through the domestic league system. We've also got the likes of Fahey on the fringes of the squad.

**nigel-harps1954** · 14/05/2013, 4:04 PM

http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...medium=twitter

And an argument as to why now was the time to call up a League of Ireland player.

**youngirish** · 14/05/2013, 8:42 PM

Would Paddy Madden be worth a look in one of the friendlies instead of Keogh or Sammon? Someone young and with potential instead of two pretty poor journeymen. Madden top scorer in league 1 and likely a Championship player next season.

**nigel-harps1954** · 14/05/2013, 8:56 PM

Originally Posted by youngirish

Would Paddy Madden be worth a look in one of the friendlies instead of Keogh or Sammon? Someone young and with potential instead of two pretty poor journeymen. Madden top scorer in league 1 and likely a Championship player next season.

This is pretty much the argument stated in the article above.

He's a lower league player. Doesn't matter if he scored 100 goals. He's playing in the 3rd division of English football.

Why shouldn't a LOI player with potential be picked? Ronan Finn, Barry McNamee, Chris Forrester. They've all huge potential.

Paddy Madden wasn't even rated as a LOI player.

**paul_oshea** · 14/05/2013, 10:26 PM

And thats what Nigel harps [really] said.

**nigel-harps1954** · 15/05/2013, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

And thats what Nigel harps [really] said.

**Stuttgart88** · 15/05/2013, 9:30 AM

I didn't think it was that great an article, Nigel, to be honest. I know you said it was "excellent" in the LOI thread but I have to disagree even if I am sympathetic to where it's coming from.

Yes, everyone should be picked on merit and in the cold light of day those in the squad probably are, with maybe a couple of marginal calls, there on merit because they are the best 28 players we have. The likes of Pilkington, Hoolahan and Richard Keogh will probably have a chance to impress and play their way into Trap's plans or elevate themselves to best back-up.

The article takes a typical snide dig at Paul Green who, like McShane, gets unfair stick. He was excellent in Stockholm and while the journeyman tag may be accurate, I'd say 99pc of all LOI players would love to achieve his place in the professional game's hierarchy.

I'm not dissing the LOI or denying that there is strong emerging talent but we're part of a British Isles pyramid for all intents and purposes and there are players elsewhere in that pyramid like Garvan, Scannell, Aaron Doran, Jon Daly, Anthony Stokes, Mark Yeates and others all playing full time professional football and to quite a high degree of accomplishment who are also left out - simply because they have taken their natural order in the scheme of things.

I think the LOI is unfortunate at this time that there are more "decent enough" Irish players playing professionally now than I can ever recall; unfortunately we have few enough of genuine class.

Also, even around 18 months ago Coleman was only a promising player in England, still making mistakes but showing great promise. He has knuckled down and under the tutorage of a great manager has now realised his potential. Despite a comment by Moyes that I posted in a recent thread, Seamie's formative years in Ireland are probably part of his success, but only part of it.

Some selective nitpicking:

The players in the League of Ireland should be picked on merit too and not pity.

I agree, and those in the squad probably are there on merit.

By including them in international squads, the FAI would send out the message to players and clubs that they are on the radar, that their efforts are recognised and could be rewarded. Seeing players from local sides could, possibly, also increase the profile of the league and lead to a boost in attendances.

Does this contradict the "pick only on merit" argument?

So long as Irish football thinks itself as inferior then that is how it will remain

No argument there, but I think any argument that the FAI should do more to support the league and govern the game better etc. is a separate argument to picking some LOI players just because it'd be a nice thing to do.

I said years ago here that a good coach should be able to tell whether a player is good enough, regardless of what level he plays at, and I stand by that. If any of those mentioned in the article are genuinely as good as any in the squad, then I'll happily accept that. I've no axe to grind on this issue - I used to scream for Liam Buckley and Alan Campbell to be selected! - but I've heard too much down the years re-Roy O'Donovan, George O'Callaghan or whoever to take some of these calls with a pinch of salt.

I hope that by picking 28 players maybe 4 of these will move up the pecking order and clear out some of those whose tenure in the squad is maybe becoming a bit stale, but I honestly don't think that the 28 players picked (with Clark and Doyle injured) is wildly off the best we have. If there are errors of judgment I suspect the players I mentioned in paragraph 4 have more to complain about than LOI players.

**paul_oshea** · 15/05/2013, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

I can't make out, is that a rod you are holding in that photo Nigel?

**paul_oshea** · 15/05/2013, 10:54 AM

Don't forget Alan Bennett, maybe even Jay O'Shea either stutts. These arguments made for the LOI players to be selected are so stupid. It can be summed up in 2 if not 1 sentences. If they are good enough they will be selected. But lets say they are good enough, even then they would be way off the level of fitness required for international football and any player worth their salt would acknowledge this, as would any person with any bit of knowledge about the game here and the game in England.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 16/05/2013, 8:29 AM

Except international football's not about fitness especially.

And am guessing LOI players are all at least as fit as all but the top 2 divisions in England...
If they're good enough, most of them would move abroad anyway as they have more earning potential in bigger leagues.

**SwanVsDalton** · 16/05/2013, 9:00 AM

Don't think much of that article myself. As Stutts pointed out there's a lot of players with a similar claim who are playing at a higher level. And throwing stick at people like Paul Green or Darren O'Dea to point score is just churlish.

I'd love to see more LOI representation but let's not talk about it as if it's win-win - Crowe, Byrne and Gamble made no impression at all. Towell, McNamee and Finn are all potential ROI internationals but I don't think it's wrong to say that, outside exceptional cases, they need to prove themselves outside the LOI first.

There's an impression all someone needs to do is get a move cross-channel to land in the international squad - but try telling that to Enda Stevens, Stephen McLaughlin, Dave Mooney et al.

**cornflakes** · 16/05/2013, 9:21 AM

Has McLaughin got much game time at Forest?

**tetsujin1979** · 16/05/2013, 9:47 AM

Originally Posted by cornflakes

Has McLaughin got much game time at Forest?

two non-used substitute appearances in March, and that was it - http://irish-abroad.appspot.com/Play...5&seasonID=142

**Charlie Darwin** · 16/05/2013, 3:29 PM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

two non-used substitute appearances in March, and that was it - http://irish-abroad.appspot.com/Play...5&seasonID=142

He missed the last 6 weeks or so of the season with an ankle ligament injury. Indications are he'd have been given a run in the first team had he been fit.

**Olé Olé** · 16/05/2013, 5:52 PM

Quick question there lads regarding Ronan Finn. Is there a specific reason why he hasn't taken the well-trodden path for players of his talent and test himself in England? Geographical location prohibits me from seeing him in the flesh but MNS and live Airtricity football have given me the impression that he really is a cut above.

Remember when Roy O'Donovan was banging in the goals for Cork City and he decided to voice his disgruntlement at a lack of a call-up? His career trajectory has justified his exclusion. Conversely, Alan Bennett's career trajectory is a stark reflection on his inclusion by Stan, then again he isn't alone in that bracket (Lapira, O'Halloran etc.).

Robbie Brady and Jeff Hendrick are the two youngest players in the current Ireland squad. They're a year older than Forrester and have extensive Championship experience. In the transfer market, there exists evidence to the effect that both have a value upward of £2.5m. It would be very difficult for Trap to include someone like Chris Forrester who has attained 2 under-21 caps this year. Brady had an impeccable under-21 record at the time of his call-up and Hendrick's level of appearances in the Championship for someone just turned 21 was similarly impressive.

**Charlie Darwin** · 16/05/2013, 6:35 PM

Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Quick question there lads regarding Ronan Finn. Is there a specific reason why he hasn't taken the well-trodden path for players of his talent and test himself in England? Geographical location prohibits me from seeing him in the flesh but MNS and live Airtricity football have given me the impression that he really is a cut above.

He stayed to get his education and by the time he was done he was one of the most sought-after players in the league and being offered good money. He's been on a couple of trials but I nothing came of them, either because the clubs didn't think he was physical big enough/too old, or else he didn't think it was right for him. He's easily the best player in the league but I feel he struggles to impose himself on games against better opposition, whereas somebody Fahey always stood out when Pat's were playing in Europe. I don't think it's too late for him but I don't think he'd walk into a Championship team the way Keith did.

Roy O'Donovan is Roy O'Donovan. His lack of humility explains a lot of why his career trajectory has taken the dive it has. It seems he's finally got his head screwed on now though.

**paul_oshea** · 17/05/2013, 8:21 AM

I watched most of Rovers games in Europe over 2-3 seasons and I thought McCormack was actually a cut above anyone else in their European games and consistently so. In more than appearance he reminded me of Green actually, but at that level stood out more. He was just a bit lightweight though. He stood out like Fahey did to me, I particularly remember Fahey away to Berlin and he was very composed on the ball compared to his compatriots.

**ifk101** · 17/05/2013, 8:34 AM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I watched most of Rovers games in Europe over 2-3 seasons and I thought McCormack was actually a cut above anyone else in their European games and consistently so. In more than appearance he reminded me of Green actually, but at that level stood out more. He was just a bit lightweight though. He stood out like Fahey did to me, I particularly remember Fahey away to Berlin and he was very composed on the ball compared to his compatriots.

Are you sure? Doubtful he has played in "most of Rovers games in Europe over 2-3 seasons" as he has never been more than a squad player for Rovers.

**Charlie Darwin** · 17/05/2013, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by ifk101

Are you sure? Doubtful he has played in "most of Rovers games in Europe over 2-3 seasons" as he has never been more than a squad player for Rovers.

He was pretty close to being a mandatory first pick around the time of that European run but that's when his injury problems began and he hasn't really had a consistent run of games since O'Neill left. His willingness to play full back probably hasn't helped either.