The Horse Racing Thread

**Mad Moose** · 03/04/2013, 8:03 PM

Just did a search through the first 4 pages of this forum and while there are references to the sport of kings it's time to dedicate a thread to the sport.

I'm a massive fan of horses and horse racing but not so much on money making from it and I'm often found in the Parade ring more often than viewing the race itself.

Can't remember the jockey I heard recently who said 'horses are the kindest of animals'. I agree. Horses have wonderful trust and kindness and my only difficulty with the sport is the injury and harm to jockeys and horses alike. Most recently JT McNamara on the penultimate day of the Grand National.

For anybody who loves the Sport then look no further than RTE's excellent The Irish Road to Cheltenham' available on RTE Player.

**the 12 th man** · 03/04/2013, 8:12 PM

Much prefer the jumps to flat but I like the horses myself,poor JT McNamara and he was going to hang up his boots after Punchestown this year as he's 37 with 3 young kids.

**Mad Moose** · 04/04/2013, 12:33 PM

Massive race tomorrow in the Mellings Chase is by far and away the highlight of the Aintree festival and makes up for the omissions at Cheltenham which would have proved a far more exciting chase.

So Flemenstar, Cue Card, Sprinter Sacre and stablemate Finian's Rainbow go head to head and while Sprinter Sacre may be unbackable I like Finian's Rainbow. Seeing Flemenstar at Leopardstown in the Christmas festival didn't really give me the wow factor but it'll be nice to see him and Peter Casey and if it's antic's your looking for watch Peter Casey and Tracey Pigott in the build up.

**BonnieShels** · 04/04/2013, 3:41 PM

Am I the only one who hates the Grand National as a spectacle? It's a vile race.

**Mad Moose** · 04/04/2013, 7:20 PM

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Am I the only one who hates the Grand National as a spectacle? It's a vile race.

No your not. It's the one I won't watch. If I hear it's gone ok I'll watch the 4 hour programme on playback which I think may be Channel 4 this year. I agree with you. Most horse racing is cruel as it is pushing the most amazing of animals to a limit and a limit they willingly will go. So no you represent a very strong majority who really don't like the challenge that is the Aintree festival and particularly the National.

That said I was at Cheltenham this year and it represented equal danger. We all know about JT McNamara and god love and bless him. I saw one female jockey smashed off the railing in one race and she survived but it looked frightening. There's been a fatality today at Aintree which is so sad.

I console myself solely with the knowledge that horses love to run. Pushing them beyond their physical ability is wrong.

**the 12 th man** · 04/04/2013, 7:29 PM

Originally Posted by Harpsbear

Seeing Flemenstar at Leopardstown in the Christmas festival didn't really give me the wow factor.

Drop in trip of 4 furlongs and the better ground might see him to better effect tomorrow.

**Mad Moose** · 04/04/2013, 8:00 PM

Originally Posted by the 12 th man

Drop in trip of 4 furlongs and the better ground might see him to better effect tomorrow.

I can't call this race. I like Finian's Rainbow and I like Peter Casey and Andrew Lynch and so I'd love to see Flemenstar put it up to Sprinter Sacre and them I'm just been silly as I like the name 'Mad Moose'. In fact I'm going to ask for a name change to Mad Moose on here

3.05 race tomorrow so I'm going to have a cheeky punt at lunch time and nip out around 3 o Clock on a call and catch this one.

**the 12 th man** · 04/04/2013, 8:40 PM

My bet is Flemenstar to place at about 11/8 on betfair as it has in my opinion only Cue Card to beat to be second to the hotpot,good luck.

**Mad Moose** · 04/04/2013, 8:52 PM

Originally Posted by the 12 th man

My bet is Flemenstar to place at about 11/8 on betfair as it has in my opinion only Cue Card to beat to be second to the hotpot,good luck.

Ambitious call and your calling Cue Card ahead of Sprinter Sacre as well

Wow massive massive call but by far and away the race of the festival and I cannot wait for it.

**the 12 th man** · 04/04/2013, 9:26 PM

Originally Posted by Harpsbear

Ambitious call and your calling Cue Card ahead of Sprinter Sacre as well

Wow massive massive call but by far and away the race of the festival and I cannot wait for it.

No,have another look,I'm saying Flemenstar to finish ahead of Cue Card and the winner of that duel should finish second to the fav at the very least.

**bennocelt** · 05/04/2013, 2:20 AM

Originally Posted by Harpsbear

No your not. It's the one I won't watch. If I hear it's gone ok I'll watch the 4 hour programme on playback which I think may be Channel 4 this year. I agree with you. Most horse racing is cruel as it is pushing the most amazing of animals to a limit and a limit they willingly will go. So no you represent a very strong majority who really don't like the challenge that is the Aintree festival and particularly the National.

That said I was at Cheltenham this year and it represented equal danger. We all know about JT McNamara and god love and bless him. I saw one female jockey smashed off the railing in one race and she survived but it looked frightening. There's been a fatality today at Aintree which is so sad.

I console myself solely with the knowledge that horses love to run. Pushing them beyond their physical ability is wrong.

A hard one for me as I became a vegetarian last year and the like - still sticking to it but got to say love the horse racing and it sometimes is a bit of a moral dilemma but hard when i was nearly reared in the bookies! I guess its better for a horse to run around a track than be served as a burger?

**Real ale Madrid** · 05/04/2013, 7:33 AM

Originally Posted by Harpsbear

and if it's antic's your looking for watch Peter Casey and Tracey Pigott in the build up.

Thankfully Tracy Piggott will be nowhere near the build-up on this as rte are not covering the racing today. Casey is a gas man alright though - would love to see him win it.
Masterminded ran to a rating of 184 or something like that at Cheltenham before getting turned over in this very race a few weeks later. Not saying it will happen today but 1/3 is too short for SS - should be fascinating

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Am I the only one who hates the Grand National as a spectacle? It's a vile race.

Shouldn't make a sweeping statement like that without a bit of back-up. Whats more "vile" about it in relation to any other horse race? In my opinion it's an amazing spectacle. It is by now a unique spectacle as well with 40 horses careering over the big national fences - watched a re-run of the Foxhunters last night, thrilling stuff.

Originally Posted by Harpsbear

No your not. It's the one I won't watch. If I hear it's gone ok I'll watch the 4 hour programme on playback which I think may be Channel 4 this year. I agree with you. Most horse racing is cruel as it is pushing the most amazing of animals to a limit and a limit they willingly will go. So no you represent a very strong majority who really don't like the challenge that is the Aintree festival and particularly the National..

Strong majority of whom ?
Racing people ? The general public ?
Not sure if there is a strong majority of either who don't like the challenge that is Aintree to be honest - there might be a few. But considering every single owner / trainer / jockey / stable lad or lass / punter etc wants to own / train / be associated with / or back the winner of the national I very much doubt its the majority of horse racing people.
And given that virtually every single person will either back a horse in the national or be involved in a sweep of some sort at work etc , add to the fact that the race day itself is sold out - then I don't think there is a strong majority there either.

Originally Posted by Harpsbear

I console myself solely with the knowledge that horses love to run. Pushing them beyond their physical ability is wrong.

Horses are bred to run as fast as they can at speed (flat) or for as long as they can at a reduced speed over obstacles ( Nat. Hunt ). They are asked to go for as fast as they can for as long as they can - when they think that they are going as fast as they can - a jockey will push them faster and faster , often times over and above their physical limits . That's what horse racing is - that is what they are bred and trained to do. If you think that is wrong - you think horse racing is wrong.

To be fair too much spotlight gets thrown on the National every year - horses are fragile animals - they die every day, it's an unpalatable thought for some. But the welfare issue is so complex I don't think you could ever discuss it enough. I do think the majority of owners and trainers are responsible and the horses are treated fantastically well - but accidents happen - this is a fact of the sport.

**Mad Moose** · 05/04/2013, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by the 12 th man

No,have another look,I'm saying Flemenstar to finish ahead of Cue Card and the winner of that duel should finish second to the fav at the very least.

Yes I get you now. I've read that too quickly and ya took me by surprise. I've gone with Flemenstar each way here. Can't wait for this one.

**Mad Moose** · 05/04/2013, 12:18 PM

I fancy At Fisher's Cross in the 4.15 today with AP McCoy.

But the 3.05 will be something special and I may have to watch it back.

**Mad Moose** · 05/04/2013, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Thankfully Tracy Piggott will be nowhere near the build-up on this as rte are not covering the racing today. Casey is a gas man alright though - would love to see him win it.
Masterminded ran to a rating of 184 or something like that at Cheltenham before getting turned over in this very race a few weeks later. Not saying it will happen today but 1/3 is too short for SS - should be fascinating

Shouldn't make a sweeping statement like that without a bit of back-up. Whats more "vile" about it in relation to any other horse race? In my opinion it's an amazing spectacle. It is by now a unique spectacle as well with 40 horses careering over the big national fences - watched a re-run of the Foxhunters last night, thrilling stuff.

Strong majority of whom ?
Racing people ? The general public ?
Not sure if there is a strong majority of either who don't like the challenge that is Aintree to be honest - there might be a few. But considering every single owner / trainer / jockey / stable lad or lass / punter etc wants to own / train / be associated with / or back the winner of the national I very much doubt its the majority of horse racing people.
And given that virtually every single person will either back a horse in the national or be involved in a sweep of some sort at work etc , add to the fact that the race day itself is sold out - then I don't think there is a strong majority there either.

Horses are bred to run as fast as they can at speed (flat) or for as long as they can at a reduced speed over obstacles ( Nat. Hunt ). They are asked to go for as fast as they can for as long as they can - when they think that they are going as fast as they can - a jockey will push them faster and faster , often times over and above their physical limits . That's what horse racing is - that is what they are bred and trained to do. If you think that is wrong - you think horse racing is wrong.

To be fair too much spotlight gets thrown on the National every year - horses are fragile animals - they die every day, it's an unpalatable thought for some. But the welfare issue is so complex I don't think you could ever discuss it enough. I do think the majority of owners and trainers are responsible and the horses are treated fantastically well - but accidents happen - this is a fact of the sport.

Pushing the point's forward and expanding them. I can't fault you. Your arguments are well made. I did mean the general public as opposed to the equine community at large. I presume RTE's non show, as was the same for Cheltenham I believe, is a financial decision?

**Real ale Madrid** · 05/04/2013, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Harpsbear

I presume RTE's non show, as was the same for Cheltenham I believe, is a financial decision?

I don't think they have ever covered Aintree Thursday and Friday to be honest. They are only covering 3 races on Saturday I think. I suppose there is no real need for it to be on another Free to Air channel .

Really like the chance of Tartak in the 3.40 - keeps running well and they keep dropping his rating - looks sure to run a big race. 12/1

**Dermotron** · 05/04/2013, 2:48 PM

Didn't even get a run out of Tartak

**the 12 th man** · 05/04/2013, 8:27 PM

Originally Posted by Harpsbear

Yes I get you now. I've read that too quickly and ya took me by surprise. I've gone with Flemenstar each way here. Can't wait for this one.

I got that one wrong,never really looked like winning against a horse that looks to be a true champion,hope you backed At Fishers Cross?

**Mad Moose** · 07/04/2013, 2:47 PM

Originally Posted by the 12 th man

I got that one wrong,never really looked like winning against a horse that looks to be a true champion,hope you backed At Fishers Cross?

Yes I did thank you. I messed up at Cheltenham on this one. As I did with Our Conor. I had a choice to make. Get down to the bookies or queue for the toilets. I had to queue for the toilets and got back and could barely see the action and no bet got placed.

At Fisher's Cross. I think that was 5/6 races won in a row. I won't have won much but thats not the main point and love of the sport for me thankfully.

**Mad Moose** · 07/04/2013, 2:51 PM

As for the Grand National. I think we got to Becher's and over Becher's without any fallers and I got caught up in the joy of that. Unfortunately that joy didn't continue with an exciting finish for me. I'm laying claim to some of the Sweepstake I organised as I picked out Cappa Bleu whom I fancied anyhow and a second finish.

Ryan Mania who rode the winner yesterday has just had a heavy fall on Stagecoach Jasper at Hexham in the last hour and he's still on the ground with head injuries and been airlifted to Newcastle very shortly. he took a kick to the head unfortunately.