No. Any more questions?Originally Posted by the doc
The team was crying out for a result, and that's what we got. As for not going for the jugular, Trap is Italian. Italians don't go for jugulars.
Delighted with the point, we got what we went there for, and the unbeaten away record stretches to 6 years.
I think we approached the game well. I told the guy beside me at half time that it reminded me of Paris and, much earlier, Amsterdam. I said I was glad we were actually prepared to engage a team rather than stand back. He said "that approach didn't work in Kazakhstan" and said we'd be mad to attack too much in the second half and asked what I'd do. I said I'd tell the players I trusted them to play their game and if they sensed it was there, they should commit. I think that's how they went about it. A couple of better passes and we'd have probably scored.
I think we could have brought on Wes earlier but I've no issue with the other subs. With 5 mins to go there the draw was looking like a good result and I think erring on the side of caution was ok. As p2011 said though, and as Geysir alluded to, seeing Doyle come on in place (plaice?) of Sammon would have been infinitely more sensible.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 23/03/2013 at 3:16 PM.
Another for the record.
Green hit 2 poor passes in the game, one was intercepted by an outrushing player and taken out of the danger area, the other missed Coleman and went out to touch.
My take on the game last night;
Forde was excellent. I was worried before the game that Zlatan was going to produce some magic, and that we'd need a keeper to make some big saves. Zlatan didn't produce much magic at all last night, but regardless we needed a keeper to step up and make some great saves. I think in all he made four excellent saves. The first he held with both hands, and that was such a confidence boost for the man and the whole team around him too. Then there was the Kallstrom free which nobody got on the end of which was curling into the net only for Forde to watch it all the way and parry it wide for a corner. I think there was another one somewhere between the first and second half, but even that very last save, when everybody in defence had switched off, with their minds already in the dressing room, Forde was as sharp as ever. His release of emotion and passion at full time whistle was a great and symbolic and iconic image for the whole display last night. Fair play to him. To have a man step up to the plate and be a hero on a night like that was so important and he delivered.
Coleman was very good too. Whether it was Trapattoni allowing him do so, or simply his own style and choice to do so, it was so refreshing to see him overlap Walters on the right channel last night and add an option down the right flank. He was extremely calm on the ball and his defensive positioning was excellent, and although he did get himself into a couple of dangerous situations by dallying on the ball a bit, he recovered himself on each occasion. I think his performance last night will prove to Trap that he's now ready to be number one choice at right back defensively, which surely was the only doubt Trapattoni had in him. He's one of our best performers at club level these days, having got his Everton career back on track this season, and he's really growing as a footballer. Great to see.
O'Shea was amazing last night. I have for a long time doubted whether he has the mentality to lead from the back, and whether he is a truly capable centre half, but last night he was brilliant in the air especially. Countless times he cleared the lines effectively and convincingly. Granted there were many times he and Clark only had to deal with Hysen, as Zlatan was dropping a bit deeper, but from set pieces O'Shea was on hand to deny Zlatan on at least two occasions, when we needed him to do so. Overall he was good on the ball too, and although some of his long balls were woeful, he did play some really great passes like so too. I think he worked really well with Clark too and it's really promising that the two have had two clean sheets in a row now.
Clark did his job very well, although there were one or two errors which almost cost us if I remember correctly. I think it's only fair to give the lad time to develop as a centre half. He's clearly full of talent and he will be a great leader for us when he gains more experience. He's had a very tough season with Villa, but mentally he is growing stronger all the time. I think given the circumstances of it being a very important away game, he did his job well alongside O'Shea and should be applauded for doing so.
Wilson was very good too. I agree with the above sentiments that he's a breath of fresh air in contrast to Ward. He was very calm and composed when on the ball last night and his defensive positioning was very very good. I think we saw last night a lot of frees being given away on our left flank, through a few rash challenges from both Wilson and McClean, so there are some criticisms to be given there, but overall Wilson wasn't at fault otherwise. I recall he headed over a vital clearance for a corner, when Zlatan was lurking at the back post from one of those free kicks in the second half, and that individual moment in itself was pivotal for his own performance.
Green was very good too. Given the fact he was being slated a lot prior to the game, for even being picked he did the job asked of him excellently. He played a shielding job between defence and midfield, and the complimenting roles of his and McCarthy's worked effectively against the Swedish midfield. It's easy to single out the two wayward passes he made, and yes they were shockingly poor. But everything else he did was vital. Often football people say that when a player like Green, doing a defensive job in midfield isn't visible notably during a football game, then you know they've done their job effectively, and quite frankly that was exactly the situation last night. Not once did he lose his shape in midfield and not once did it feel like the Swedes had broken through our midfield during the game. Kudos where it's due.
McCarthy played really well. Given that he wasn't even supposed to start on Thursday evening he came in and proved a point. He got forward and tried some creative and ambititious passes. Some of these passes, when we were in the final third didn't work because he over-played the ball or whatever and that's a shame. But he was trying these passes and that's where he should be congratulated. It's clear he has bags of talent with the ball at his feet, and hopefully he'll play on Tuesday because we need him and need him to perform if we want to win. Again, given more experience he'll grow into being a vitally important player for Ireland. But last night, he was excellent for 90 mins, against a good Swedish team, and his interview after the game shows he's mentally strong and is not ego-driven in the slightest. We're so lucky to have him.
Walters wasn't the best, but he did his job very effectively from a defensive perspective. Sweden weren't much of a threat down our right flank, and it was due to the work from Walters and Coleman that they were unable to expose us down this flank. So in that way Walters was good. But he was very poor from an attacking or creative perspective. He didn't look comfortable on the wing when on the ball and he looked rather laboured when the ball was at his feet. Come Tuesday I will want Brady on the flank instead of him. I think Trapattoni decided not to play Brady given that it was an away game we couldn't afford to lose. But there will be no questions of whether Brady is 'mentally ready' for the home game. We simply need Brady to play because he's got the keys to unlock a defence with his left foot. Thanks Walters for all the effort last night, it was important.
McClean was good. He was dangerous especially in the first half and turned Lustig inside out a few times. I think he got poorer and less effective as the first half went on and he wasn't very good in the second half. But he did his job defensively and given that there are lots of question marks over him this season at Sunderland about not only his attitude but his performances, he at least proved last night to the doubters in the Irish public that he can do a disciplined job when he's focused.
Keane was good too. Again like McClean he was more effective in the first half than in the second half. He dropped deep quite a lot and he slowed down the Swedish in possession on a numerous occasions simply be closing them down or tracking back that little bit. He provided a bit of creativity early in the game, but as the first half rolled on, he seemed to be getting in the way of other players on a few occasions. He should have come off around the 65-70 minute mark for Hoolahan, because at that stage he was clearly ineffective. I'd still be happy for him to start on Tuesday, but he'll need to put in a very very good game if he wants to keep his captain's armband and starting position for the rest of this campaign.
Long wasn't the best on the night. He worked hard in the air against his clubmate Olsson, and there were one or two signs of his capabilities, but that one chance where he worked so hard to fashion himself some space was poorly finished by him, and that was the best chance we had all night realistically. He'll need to up his game on Tuesday.
Very happy overall with last night. A draw is what I wanted and what we needed and we got that with a very good performance too. The game was arguably there for the taking, but if we had scored Sweden would have woken up too, depending of course when in the game we scored.
Trapattoni once again proved last night that he knows what he is doing. His system is archaic up against teams like Spain and Germany, but otherwise there aren't many teams that can break down his tactics. His system is all about making us competitive, but the crunch is when we're at home and where we need to win the games, and I don't think it's necessarily down to his system's flaws where we lack the ability to win such games. We just don't have the quality to do so.
His team selection last night was right. I was delighted with the back four chosen to play and when he did have to pick McCarthy due to the enforced injury change, I was happy with the midfield.
Here's hoping the players are confident and rested for the big game on Tuesday. At least we the fans are confident and hopeful once again.
Managed to watch the game on RTÉ as my brother got it working through a proxy. Always more fun watching Bill and the boys engage in their handbags stuff, although "Dunphy the Intellect" and "Bill the Omniscient" do spout an unbelievable amount of semi-ignorant drivel of the "alternative populist" persuasion. I noticed Dunphy will never commit to a positive; he'll just remain critical and dwell on the negative. It's all too easy to snipe from the side-lines, of course. Just one example; he was loading praise on Green, perhaps with a hint of criticism of Trap in there too, for good measure, maybe for not having selected Green earlier or something - can't remember exactly - but when Bill penetrated further and asked would Dunphy start him on Tuesday were he manager, Dunphy, of course, responded from the fence, stating in avoidance that he'd merely "consider" starting him because he was wasteful.
Tony O'D's contrived questioning of Trap grates with me also. I don't dislike Tony, but his line of questioning often seems overly forced; like he's been told to push a particular line or he's attempting to appease an audience of baying Trap dissenters behind their television screens.
Anyway, the game itself... Not had a chance to read the forum or much of the analysis since as had an early start in work this morn, but I think 0-0 was a very fair result. Neither team had any real clear-cut chances and I think Sweden played a game that suited us, but I was still very much heartened by our performance. I was actually a bit crestfallen immediately after the game; not out of some empty feeling from apparent passion lacking or anything, but given that we did have some decent half-chances to win it outright. In hindsight, however, and with a more considered and analytical look back at the game overall, one can't complain. It's a great away point and you'd like to think we can power on now with a victory over Austria on Tuesday so that the home game against Sweden really does become a "cup final" affair. They're certainly beatable and should not be feared in Dublin.
Forde was excellent in goals. His kicking still has me biting my nails every time, but he's very good on his toes and he made some terrific quick-action saves. Did well with the corners and crosses, bar one where he went for a punch and allowed Ibrahimovic to get a head to the ball before him. I'd feared for possible costly errors or lapses in concentration from the sometimes-prone Clark and O'Shea but they handled proceedings well and were never massively troubled with so little of the Swedish ball on the ground around the Irish goal. If Ibrahimovic had played with his feet a little deeper and Sweden had kept the ball out of the air up around our box, we might have felt more pressure, but you can only deal with what your opponents can muster. We were well able to sweep up most of what they threw our way in the final third.
Coleman was my man-of-the-match. He looked very competent and creative going up the wing and also dealt with his defensive duties in a confident and composed manner; even when seemingly lacking in space and options, he'd still invariably manage, somehow, to find a way out of the corner hole by utilising his speed and skill to make a clearance, and a decent one at that, rather than hoofing it up into row Z. Wilson also did a good job in what has been a real problem area for us in recent times. It was an all-round very promising defensive display and there is definite hope for the future in the full-back positions.
I sensed RTÉ may have given McCarthy their man-of-the-match in order to stir the pot a bit; "How can Trap see this guy as second-choice/drop him for Austria?" That's not to take away from McCarthy's performance, however. His partnership with Green was so much more involved and far less anaemic than that we've come to expect of Andrews and Whelan. He was effective and purposeful going forward and was unfortunate that some of his through-balls didn't actually work out. Had he managed to put McClean through in the first half, or Keogh later on, we'd be celebrating a victory. Unfortunately, his touches were a bit heavy. Whelan's injury a possible blessing in disguise, then. His booking was also ridiculous, by the way. Great to have some real competition in the midfield now and he's hopefully given Trap some real food for thought for Tuesday. Green was determined and made a number of good interceptions but also wasted some possession with poorly-placed passes. Still, he was a much better player than the one so many of us expected to be so easily over-run. I'm happy to admit he proved my doubts wrong. When people ridicule Trap for allegedly comparing his ability to that of Gattuso or Stiles, I fear they're misreading Trap (perhaps intentionally), or reading him too literally even. There's something lost in translation there. I'd doubt Trap is comparing their respective talents; rather, he is comparing the roles. But, of course, when the media want to twist a dagger in someone, ambiguous language is a perfect weapon for them to exploit.
Walters gave his all; a very spirited performance. He was clearly tiring by the end but you couldn't fault his effort throughout. He's growing into a real favourite of mine. McClean was also excellent; another stand-out performance, I thought. He started especially well, although faded later on before being substituted. Nevertheless, a welcome and relieving resurrection from a player whose career we all know finished a few months ago… Was Lustig taken off due to injury or because he was being given the run-around?
Robbie started well and chased down a lot of ball, but as the game hit a lull half-way through the second-half he became ineffective and should have been taken off for Hoolahan a bit earlier. After the mid-second-half lull, we were on the ascendancy again and Hoolahan's introduction cemented that. Long worked hard and did OK but really should have done better with the early opportunity he wasted by blaring it over the bar.
I can't really judge Sammon or Keogh as they didn't really do a huge deal or have enough time to make an impact either way.
My overall ratings:
Forde: 7.5
Wilson: 7
O’Shea: 6
Clark: 6
Coleman: 7.5
McClean: 7
Green: 6
McCarthy: 7.5
Walters: 6.5
Robbie: 6
Long: 6
Hoolahan: 6.5
Trap: 7
Also great to see two former Derry City players in our starting line-up for a World Cup qualifier, and to see another come on later in the game, of course.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 23/03/2013 at 4:30 PM.
I thought Long was very poor last night particularly in the first half. The centre defence started shaky I thought but solid performance from both. Green, McCarthy both excellent. A thorough selfless performance from Keane, ran himself stupid and don't think I've seen him play so deep for such long periods, linked the play well but obviously not in position enough to be a real goal threat. What I don't get is why people think its Keane or hoolahan. If hoolahan starts then the one striker who should be on the pitch is Keane! He's been crying out for a decent midfielder to give him service. I would nominally play Wes right midfield with instruction to drift inside, Keane pushed right upfront with either long or Walters.
"great to see another(Derry City player) come on later in the game, of course."
I don't know if many would share that sentiment Danny
Wrt PatJR's post, I agree that the received wisdom of Keane not being a line leader isn't critical. There's no better player than Keane to make the runs that Hoolahan could pick out. Keane probably is the man to start upfront, though I would deploy Hoolahan (nominally) centrally / advanced and persist with an orthodox wide right player, be it Walters, Brady or maybe Long.
Ha, perhaps. In the sense that it can only promote the reputation of the club/League of Ireland, however, it's positive that so many former league players are featuring so prominently in our competitive first team now."great to see another(Derry City player) come on later in the game, of course."
I don't know if many would share that sentiment Danny
With the exception of Sammon then, if it keeps you happy...
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 23/03/2013 at 6:38 PM.
I think the issue is that in the absence of competent passers all over the pitch, our main method of moving the ball forward is still long balls and passes to the corners, which requires strong, athletic players with aerial ability like Long, McClean, Walters, etc
Will Trap try to lure Gibson back for the remaining matches after Austria or is he likely to remain out?
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
I'd say it was injury not tactical, he is injury prone, or possibly it was from the time he clashed heads with McClean. George H did say injury, maybe he got the info from our intrepid RTE reporter on the sideline or maybe he just assumed that anybody who head butts McClean must have sustained serious skull damage
In the 2nd half Zlatan moved over to the (Swedish) left side and most Swedish activity went over to the left side. Maybe the Swedish RB was in a holding role in the 2nd half.
Lustig pulled up about half way through the first half. Looked like a stiff groin (I say!) possibly.
Did anybody else notice Robbie giving out to Andy Keogh after the game?
just saw it on RTÉ player there.
As for PatJr's post above I couldn't agree more.
Robbie didn't do much wrong and Long didn't really have any affect on the game other than one break in the first half where he should have got his shot on target.
Robbie and Hoolahan I think would work well together
Folding my way into the big money!!!
What do you guys make of this: Tilda Swinton is napping in a glass box with a bed in it at MOMA.
Is that art?
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
Keogh gave away a dumb free kick in injury time which they nearly scored from. He deserved it!
That really was two poor teams.
Ireland defended 'well', simply because Sweden were pretty awful.
It must have given Austria hope.
What if Austria are even worse? I thought Sweden looked quite ordinary and cemented my view that they only got 4 against Germany because the krauts left themselves so ridiculously open after having done enough to win at a canter. Lazy Germans, no work ethic.
Hmm, just 4 goals, away in Berlin?
Nothing ordinary there.
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