Liam Brady, Graeme Souness, Ian Rush, Trevor Francis, Joe Jordan, Ray Wilkins? The best players in the world played in Italy in the 1980s and early 1990s, as shown by Italy's relative dominance of the competition during that decade. There weren't that many British and Irish players among that number during that time because there weren't that many great British and Irish players around.
How are you determining they are among the best players in the world at that time? Rush was a legend for Liverpool, but a disaster in Italy. Among the others mentioned, only Brady was considered a success. For many, it was a retirement scheme as they had achieved all they could in the English game. I agree Italy was dominant in Europe as money speaks, but I can't agree that they were all among the best players in England when they went to Italy.
Last edited by gastric; 27/03/2013 at 3:10 AM.
In the period of time those players played in Italy (1981-87), the England v Italy score was 3-1, 2-0, and 1-1 for victories in the European Cup, Uefa cup, and Cup-winners cup respectively.
If your argument is that Italian success in europe in the early 90's demonstrates the superiority of their league at that time, then in the 1980's the English league was demonstrably superior. These players moved away from the English league during its most dominant period in Europe.
Last edited by osarusan; 27/03/2013 at 3:15 AM.
I'd say the reason they didn't succeed in Italy was because they played a relatively one-dimensional style of football that didn't lend itself to the more intricate continental game, which to be fair hasn't really changed much. English (and Irish) players generally haven't succeeded abroad regardless of the era. My point remains that Irish players were at the top echelons of the English game because the English game was particularly weak at that point. I'm not saying Glenn Whelan would have prospered at Liverpool in the '80s, just that our standard of player hasn't dramatically decreased since Houghton and Staunton were flitting between Liverpool and Aston Villa.
I'm disagreeing with your point that the best players in the English league moved to Italy in the 80's because it was a better league. By your own barometer for success, it clearly wasn't.
Last edited by osarusan; 27/03/2013 at 4:01 AM.
I disagree with that obviously but I made my point inelegantly. There weren't a whole lot of great British and Irish players around at the time, and I think the more talented ones were courted by superior leagues, particularly when the English clubs were kicked out of Europe. The Irish players in question, with the exception of your Whelans and your Lawrensons, came to prominence when the English clubs were excluded from Europe and thus significantly weaker than they were when English clubs were winning European cups a few years earlier. So I think it's lazy to compare today's Irish players, when the Premier League has the money to attract many of the world's best players, with that era when English football was at a historical weak point.
That was lazy, to be fair. But I do think the Italian teams courted and got who they wanted.
Many great players didn't move to Italy in the 80's and 90's Charlie. It doesn't make them any less good. And given that the Serie A was the top league in Europe at the time, it is widely accepted that the English league was a very close second, in spite of the ban.
Plus...with regards to not moving abroad.....
John Byrne - Le Havre
Kevin Moran - Sporting Goujons
Tony Cascarino - Marseilles/Nancy/Red Star
John Aldridge - Real Sociedad
Mick McCarthy - facking Lyon!
Stapleton - Ajax/Anderlecht + Le Havre
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
Players like Ronnie Whelan, John Barnes, Bryan Robson and McGrath would not have been out of place in any club side of that era. You could add pretty much any of the Liverpool team from then actually.
It's been often said around these parts but imagine just how good he could have been if he had knees!
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
gijons goujons dijon....
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
Apropos nothing:
Ireland Team 1988
Packie Bonner, Chris Morris, Mick McCarthy, Kevin Moran, Chris Hughton, Ray Houghton, Paul McGrath, Ronnie Whelan, Tony Galvin, Frank Stapleton, John Aldridge. Subs - Niall Quinn for Stapleton (63), Kevin Sheedy for Galvin (76) Subs Not Used: Gerry Peyton; John Byrne; John Anderson Coach: Jack Charlton
England Team
Shilton; Stevens; Sansom; Webb; Wright; Adams; Robson; Waddle; Beardsley; Lineker; Barnes. Subs: Hoddle for Webb (60); Hateley for Beardsley (82)
Joint team:
1 Shilton, 2 Stevens, 3 Sanson, 4 McGrath, 5 Moran, 6 Robson 7 Houghton 8 Whelan 9 Lineker 10 Beardsley, 11 Barnes
4 Irish 7 English with moving McGrath back to centre half. Stapleton was nearing the end of his career, hence I chose Beardsley over him. In his prime I would have chosen Frank.
We did really well to come out with that victory over a very good English side. To keep a forward line of Waddle; Beardsley; Lineker and Barnes scoreless was a great achievement. Thank you Jack. Thank you Ray. Thank you Ireland.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Bookmarks