Jack Charlton

[Lionel Ritchie]

He's always claimed that he was fully fit and that Manchester City refused to release him. He also claims that Jack Charlton should have done more to pressue City to release him and was afraid to do so because he was English and hoped to get a job back in English club footballl.

I can understand Quinns disappointment but that's probably a bit harsh on Jack. City would have been keen to protect an asset from early exposure to competitive football and wouldn't have given a monkeys about Irelands needs for the WC or Quinn desire to be there. Seemingly Roma were in for Quinn the previous autumn before he did the knee in. Citeh may have selfishly but understandably wanted to keep him in merchantable condition in case they or anyone else renewed their interest.

[geysir]

I read another story where Jack said he was waiting for definite news about Quinn at the end of May.

Jack Charlton
Irish Voice
05-31-1994
THE Jack Charlton PAGE: Barring Injury, My U.S. Panel Is Set; Quinn's a. Maybe, But Packie's Still No. 1

I HAVE named a panel of 22 players for the three games we have lined up against Bolivia, Germany, and the Czech Republic. (See Countdown to [B]USA `[B]94 on Page 44 for the names.) I don't have to name may final choice until June 3, but it is very likely that the 22 I've picked for the three friendlies will be the panel who will go to America.

I'll leave it until June 3, just in case we get an injury or two. And if Niall Quinn came good, for example, we would like to bring him with us. I haven't ruled him out so far - with an...

Thats all from http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-2249279.html

[tetsujin1979]

What about the story of Haughey coming in to the dressing room after we were beaten by Italy in 1990 and giving a rousing speech.
Cascarino turned to Quinn and said 'Who the fack is tha''? Quinn embarrassingly said 'Shhhh it's the Taoiseach'
Townsend said to Cas, 'Who the fack is tha'"?
To which Cascarino replied 'I dunno. Quinny says he owns a Tea Shop'.

think this one is a bit of a myth, surely they would have met him before that game?
Believe it or not, the same joke is in the closing credits of an episode of Drop The Dead Donkey!

[Fixer82]

I remember Niall Quinn telling the story on some free DVD I got with a paper. The Jack Charlton Years or one of those

[bennocelt]

It works both ways. Perceived neglect breeds contempt and the FAI have never made the league or its adherents their priority. In fact, the league is nowhere near their priority...



They are English and Irish, after all, so why wouldn't they use "we" when referring to both their clans, if you will?



He was born in London, but that one's a bit more puzzling considering both his parents were Irish and he grew up in Ireland from the age of three.

Exactly, never understood why people have a big issue with this!

As regards Big Jack - people seem to forget that international football was generally muck back then - He did a fantastic job with us. I dont think too many teams were playing free flowing passing football, or at least any teams that I can remember. The game is so much different nowadays (which Trap is only just realising!)

[Paddy Garcia]

I'm very grateful to Jack and for the great ride we has though his years- teamwork and team commitment underpinned the success.

My one gripe is that he did not quite have the vision to see what that team could achieve. His comment that the quarter final against Italy was "our final" and that we were pleased to get there set the expectation amongst the players and I think this was a mistake.

Still he has much more on the credit balance than the debit. And if he was in the hot seat today I don't think we would have so many man management issues.

[OwlsFan]

While we were lucky to qualify for Euro 88, this was the beginning of people actually believing in Irish football and having expectations..

Why were we lucky? We finished top of the group with most points. We were a better side than Bulgaria. If Scotland beat Bulgaria earlier in the group, there would have been no talk of luck. Teams qualify for tournaments not based solely on their own performances but also that of their rivals. Bulgaria were not good enough to beat Scotland at home. Bulgaria took 1 point from Scotland, we took 4. We were very unlucky to lose in Bulgaria. We beat Bulgaria 2-0 in our final match. We deserved our place and we finished with the most points.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Townsend supported England in the game in Euro'88, that's well documented. But who cares now?
He's been long since forgiven...

[footballplease]

I'm not sure if it's that people are too young to have been around back then or they have short memories but the side under Jack was a serious outfit. Most of the players were at top clubs of the time.

All this utter nonsense about benchmarking players against 'would they play for england' is mind-boggling! Ireland, from about 1990 onwards, were way ahead of England in terms of quality of player. If we only had some more self-belief and maybe one more striker! The 1-1 draw in Wembley was one of the most dominant Ireland displays i've ever seen and how we didnt win that game is a total mystery. Our midfield, including the aforementioned Townsend, was in a different league to England's. I still maintain that if we had qualified for the 92 Euro's we would have won it. A total brainfart at 3-1 ahead away to Poland cost us that group, along with that Wembley game.

[footballplease]

Why were we lucky? We finished top of the group with most points. We were a better side than Bulgaria. If Scotland beat Bulgaria earlier in the group, there would have been no talk of luck. Teams qualify for tournaments not based solely on their own performances but also that of their rivals. Bulgaria were not good enough to beat Scotland at home. Bulgaria took 1 point from Scotland, we took 4. We were very unlucky to lose in Bulgaria. We beat Bulgaria 2-0 in our final match. We deserved our place and we finished with the most points.

Totally agree - i was at all of the home games in that group and not once did we look inferior, unlike most of the games nowadays. We battered Bulgaria at home and were blatently robbed in the away game. Actually the away game was a typical eastern european away game of it's time - dodgy ref included!!

[Bungle]

I'm not sure if it's that people are too young to have been around back then or they have short memories but the side under Jack was a serious outfit. Most of the players were at top clubs of the time.

All this utter nonsense about benchmarking players against 'would they play for england' is mind-boggling! Ireland, from about 1990 onwards, were way ahead of England in terms of quality of player. If we only had some more self-belief and maybe one more striker! The 1-1 draw in Wembley was one of the most dominant Ireland displays i've ever seen and how we didnt win that game is a total mystery. Our midfield, including the aforementioned Townsend, was in a different league to England's. I still maintain that if we had qualified for the 92 Euro's we would have won it. A total brainfart at 3-1 ahead away to Poland cost us that group, along with that Wembley game.

Have to agree with all of that. Euro 92 was a tragedy. I believe that we could have gone there and won it. We certainly had it in our locker to anyway. Only Germany, Holland and Yugoslavia who didn't play in the end because of their war were better teams than us on paper.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm not sure if it's that people are too young to have been around back then or they have short memories but the side under Jack was a serious outfit. Most of the players were at top clubs of the time.

Uh, they were at the top English clubs of the time. When English clubs were banned from, and then relatively uncompetitive in, European competition. We're probably a few top players short of where we were under Jack, but below the top-tier players our current lot are as good or better as they've ever been.

[SkStu]

The players Jack had at his disposal particularly from 88-92 were a class above any squads we have produced since. Easily. I can name 10 top class players, at least, during that time that could have walked into most european national teams/squads at that time. We could probably debate or argue the merits of another 10 as being top class.

[Charlie Darwin]

I suppose the question then is why were they playing in England?

[gastric]

The players Jack had at his disposal particularly from 88-92 were a class above any squads we have produced since. Easily. I can name 10 top class players, at least, during that time that could have walked into most european national teams/squads at that time. We could probably debate or argue the merits of another 10 as being top class.

Agreed. Any team that could play Paul McGrath at rigth back to accommodate him had to have some quality. This percieved lack of ambition that has been mentioned is ridiculous! We were so happy to be playing with the big boys, beating them and enjoying the journey. Rather than lacking ambition I believe we remained grounded and were aware of our limitations. Unfortunately, since then expectations have developed and are often out of kilter with the reality of our ability.

[gastric]

I suppose the question then is why were they play in England?

What?

[Charlie Darwin]

What?

If they were top European players, they'd have been playing for European clubs. But instead they were playing in England.

[gastric]

The reason they played in England is simple. Players didn't really make the move to the continent to play. In fact such was the hysteria following Gascoigne's move to Italy that people asked if he could follow John Charles and Liam Brady in being a success in Italy. Channel 4 even bought the rights to Italian soccer so people in England could watch Gazza. Many a Sunday afternoon with a bad hangover I would stare at the television being bored by Italian football.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well, they didn't move to the continent because they weren't good enough. The best players in England in the '80s did move to Italy. The rest stayed because nobody wanted them, or they weren't ambitious enough to better themselves.

[osarusan]

Pretty simplistic stance on the situation, Charlie.