Ireland V Sweden(A) 22 March & Austria(H) - 26 March 2013 - World Cup 2014 Qualifiers

[Dodge]

Pretty simple really, the worst second place team doesn't get into the play offs
Current standings on the wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FI...d-placed_teams

They should really put a column on that graph that would show points per game too IMO. Doesn't change the position of our group but would give a more accurate 'as they stand' position (Bulgaria drop below England & Iceland)

[geysir]

Austria .......They are technically poor, and extremely weak at the back. Ibrahimovic will have a field day with these clowns.

Austria, technically were a few rungs ahead of us. Defensively they're not that different from us, unlike us they managed okay against Germany.
By your reckoning, we are currently in the pits of European football, below the likes of Austria and Sweden.
I wouldn't argue against that.

[Bungle]

Barney, I can see value in some of what you are saying. I think as I said that somebody like Gibson who I rate as a player should be nowhere near our squad, until he learns a bit of dignity and respect. However, some of the lads he has left out until recently strike me as guys who are not just better players, but guys who give 100%, like Coleman, Wilson and McCarthy. These are not just talented young lads, but they are committed to the green shirt. They are the very players you can build a team around and none of them are big time charlies - McClean isn't a big time charlie but has shown that in his own way he can be disruptive. Hoolahan and O'Brien strike me as lads who would give anything to be out on the pitch for us.

[paul_oshea]

The eight best runners-up (determined by records against the first, third, fourth and fifth-placed teams in their groups, to ensure balance between different groups as Group I has only five teams) will be drawn into two-legged play-offs. There has been no indication that the play-off draw will be seeded as of yet, but as we know from the World Cup 2010 and Euro 2012 play-offs, that can, and probably will, change. We'd have little hope of being seeded in such an eventuality, just looking at the likely second-placed finishers.

The ranking of second-placed teams for the play-offs is explained/shown here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FI...d-placed_teams

So Israel are below us then? What was stu saying? Or is he saying that if we were to be a point ahead of austria then we would be bottom because Austra are the worst 4th placed team? So the fact that we didn't beat austria as opposed to drawing with them is held against us in that sense.

[ArdeeBhoy]

But Trapatonni has to also take credit for the attitude and commitment shown by the players in the last two games.

Surely that's in spite of him, not because of...

[ArdeeBhoy]

So Israel are below us then? What was stu saying? Or is he saying that if we were to be a point ahead of austria then we would be bottom because Austra are the worst 4th placed team? So the fact that we didn't beat austria as opposed to drawing with them is held against us in that sense.

Just follow (& bookmark?) the table FFS!

[barney]

Barney, I can see value in some of what you are saying. I think as I said that somebody like Gibson who I rate as a player should be nowhere near our squad, until he learns a bit of dignity and respect. However, some of the lads he has left out until recently strike me as guys who are not just better players, but guys who give 100%, like Coleman, Wilson and McCarthy. These are not just talented young lads, but they are committed to the green shirt. They are the very players you can build a team around and none of them are big time charlies - McClean isn't a big time charlie but has shown that in his own way he can be disruptive. Hoolahan and O'Brien strike me as lads who would give anything to be out on the pitch for us.

I think you're right but if the manager's mindset is that anyone who gets into the squad has to wait for their chance, then it doesn't matter what kind of lad they are. Maybe that's Trap's way of weeding out the trouble-makers from the others. For example, Gibson proved himself a problem when he didn't get in the team, Coleman didn't. However, if Trap puts them both in immediately, how does he find out what each player is made of?

[DannyInvincible]

So Israel are below us then? What was stu saying? Or is he saying that if we were to be a point ahead of austria then we would be bottom because Austra are the worst 4th placed team? So the fact that we didn't beat austria as opposed to drawing with them is held against us in that sense.

If we were included in that table right now (in the place of Austria), we'd be positioned ninth, behind Israel, with 5 points and a goal difference of -4. Our 4-1 victory away to the Faroe Islands is discounted, you see. As things stand, we have little hope of even making it into that mix. Of course, things can change, but I wouldn't be overly optimistic.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Or we might have had two more points and a GD of -3.

[DannyInvincible]

I'll tell you what, Tilda Swinton was at it again at the Museum of Modern Art yesterday. Give me a second here to explain.
She gets into a bed before the gates open, and doesnt get out until MOMA closes for the night. Must be at least 8 hours if not 10. She puts herself into a trance. She is a Scot, but with Irish blood like James McCarthy and Aiden McG. My point is, she is 50 and she doesn't have to go to the bathroom one time. Im 35 and i pee about 50 times a day. You people from being raised over there with that stron ability to hold on have that extra "oomph" like Tilda.
Ireland will Qualify, because they have that intangible ability to see things out like Tilda Swinton does.
After seeing her laying there I'm sure of it.

... If it's of any relevance at all, I don't think Tilda Swinton has any Irish blood in her actually.

[shakermaker1982]

Do you want to know who we have beaten in competitive matches at home under the Trap?

Cyprus
Georgia
Andorra
Macedonia
Armenia

Does that fill you with any hope that we might actually take 3 points from the Sweden game? A miracle is now needed to finish 2nd and have enough points to qualify for the play offs. Therefore the FAI can get rid NOW and start building for the Euro 2016 campaign.

[barney]

Do you want to know who we have beaten in competitive matches at home under the Trap?

Cyprus
Georgia
Andorra
Macedonia
Armenia

Does that fill you with any hope that we might actually take 3 points from the Sweden game? A miracle is now needed to finish 2nd and have enough points to qualify for the play offs. Therefore the FAI can get rid NOW and start building for the Euro 2016 campaign.

Might be a bit of an overstatement?

[DeLorean]

First of all at this moment in time, our group will not have a play-off place. That's embarassing.

How is it embarrassing? All that represents is that you've got one stand out team and a bunch of teams who are of similar ability. Finishing first out of Sweden, Austria and ourselves surely merits a playoff spot as much, if not more, than France finishing ahead of Finland and Belarus.

The system is dumb anyway. The likes of San Marino, Liechtenstein, etc. should have to pre-qualify. Let the best of the minnows make it to qualifying proper. Have eight groups and even things out. As it stands all the countries have to engage in two meaningless formalities of racking up goals and points against these teams and then they don't even count at the end. Total nonsense.

[tetsujin1979]

They should really put a column on that graph that would show points per game too IMO. Doesn't change the position of our group but would give a more accurate 'as they stand' position (Bulgaria drop below England & Iceland)

If you think it would be useful, add it in yourself.

[Kingdom]

How is it embarrassing? All that represents is that you've got one stand out team and a bunch of teams who are of similar ability. Finishing first out of Sweden, Austria and ourselves surely merits a playoff spot as much, if not more, than France finishing ahead of Finland and Belarus.

The system is dumb anyway. The likes of San Marino, Liechtenstein, etc. should have to pre-qualify. Let the best of the minnows make it to qualifying proper. Have eight groups and even things out. As it stands all the countries have to engage in two meaningless formalities of racking up goals and points against these teams and then they don't even count at the end. Total nonsense.

It's embarassing because it means that not only are we garbage, but we stink worse than other garbage. France will be finishing ahead of Spain, no?

Tell me the difference between Ireland's heroic performance in Russia September 2012 and Liechtenstein's heroic 0-0 draw with us in 1995? Because in both cases one team stuck on a chastity belt, bent-over and breathed deep for 90 mins, then laughed in relief.

[EAFC_rdfl]

What puzzles me is that when the goal is scored McCarthy is further up the pitch than Walters, there is only
Sammon further up the pitch then him. It's like we are playing 4-3-3 or even 4-3-2-1 the famous Christmas tree formation.

Look here 2.33


Sammon is in the centre circle.
McCarthy is right next to the player who heads the ball.
Walters is doing a 'scarecrow'.
at 2.34
Whelan was marking the goal scorer but leaves him to cover the player Green is marking,
We just seem so disorganised at this point many are not clear who they should be marking.
It's all pretty dreadful, McCarhy seems to be well out of position and we do what we always seem
to do, run towards the nearest player with the ball en mass.
Of course this leaves several players unmarked and it is doddle for that player to pass to one of the unmarked players,
which he will due do, and then we all run towards that player leaving further players unmarked.

This is pointless it means we end up knackered because we are running twice as far and they are..

The solution is simple, just one player runs towards him, then he has a big problem, he has nobody to pass to duh!!!!

Now as annoying as most of the in-game comments from you were , the above hits the nail on the head.
To me it looked like Walters was expecting the fulltime whistle (crowd were whistling at the time), but there was still 2 mins left, he must have known that. He was waving arms as if to say - blow it up ref. Why the hell wasn't he busting an albeit already knackered gut to try get back into a defensive position.
A huge amount of the equaliser comes down to lads being so knackered from the style of play - chasing and pressing - that they just couldn't keep the concentration levels up high enough. Whelan was flat on his feet for the last 20 mins. If that Austria move had of been earlier in the game Alaba wouldn't have had the time he got. Tired body = tired mind unfortunately. The 3 subs available should have been used before the 80th minute. sickened

[DeLorean]

It's embarassing because it means that not only are we garbage, but we stink worse than other garbage. France will be finishing ahead of Spain, no?

Spain beat France 1-0 away last night to move top. I've already explained why I don't think a group with lower points totals represents an inferior group, just a more even group.

Tell me the difference between Ireland's heroic performance in Russia September 2012 and Liechtenstein's heroic 0-0 draw with us in 1995? Because in both cases one team stuck on a chastity belt, bent-over and breathed deep for 90 mins, then laughed in relief.

Liechtenstein's was a far greater achievement but it's beside the point I was making. We regularly get draws away to the likes of Russia and are competitive. It's very rare that the San Marino's of the world produce anything worthwhile so I feel it would be better for everybody, possibly including themselves, to even up the groups and have more competitive games.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Stop employing old British has-beens to find our next manager.

Like, who exactly? Jack Charlton?

[ArdeeBhoy]

http://balls.ie/football/5-talking-p...-with-austria/

[Stuttgart88]

I'm actually more negative than Brian Kerr today, and that's not usual.

First up, the inclusion of Sammon was a nonsensical disaster. Poor lad, it's not his fault he's not up to the standard required. Trap is making us regret calling for him to go to more matches. He'd never have seen him otherwise. Giles' Herald preview predicted he'd be out of his depth and his inclusion signalled a return to hoofball afteer proper football on Friday - he was 100% right.

Many pundits including Kerr have said Whelan was good. I disagree. He offered nothing over and above the bare minimum a CM should be able to do, and at times he looked panicky on the ball and struggled with the basics. He was one paced too, but in fairness took some decent frees / corners. I'm usually the last one here defending Whelan but I thought he looked very limited. As soon as Trap stumbles on a more effective midfield, he rips it all up again. Why?

Kerr said we played well in parts. Very very few parts in my view, and generaly isolated bits of individual play rather than cohesive team play. The game plan was awful. We were only ahead at half time because of superior attrition. Attrition is not playing well, even if it works.

We might have scored a 3rd from another set piece but after their keeper made a good save that was it as far as I recall. From then we sat back and allowed them to outnumber us in key areas while Trap just looked on. I couldn't believe the utterly ineffective Sammon (why play hoofball if your centre-forward loses most of his aerial duels?) stayed on. Cox, Doyle or Hoolahan would all have been better options than leaving Sammon on, and I also couldn't believe Walters moved upfront to stay at 442.

Utterly bizarre and inept management. In fact our approach to the whole game was so devoid of what Giles always refers to as moral courage I'd say it was a cowardly showing from Trap. The players were all game, but the strategy & mindset was a cop out. I'm livid.