You can eat again?
Depends what change you mean. I am quite happy to see change and I believe that different players should be used and some of Trap's selections baffle me but that said, he picks them to suit HIS formation, tactics etc. That's what's he's paid to do. Most thought the selection of Green in Sweden would be a disaster. Time told otherwise. If Sweden scored in the last minute, which they almost did, we would have had the why not bring on Hoolahan 20 minutes earlier debate again etc. Such are the fine margins.Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Will come back to the rest later. Have to go home for dinner
Last edited by OwlsFan; 28/03/2013 at 5:46 PM.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
You can eat again?
Sorry but while Green ended up being a shield for Whelan's being rubbish, his positioning throughout the game was disastrous. Fairer to say they were both dreadful and leave it at that.
Combination of tiredness and lack of composure. Our lack of experience on the night was glaring. It's no more than a dodge, but Trap had a point on that one.
For everyone talking about Sammon - didn't get it. He didn't do any more than what Jon Walters offers in terms of aerial ability, was poor with ball at feet and a bit powder puff when getting outmuscled by Austrians.
He also completely chickened out of a 50/50 tackle around halfway with roughly ten minutes to go - call me old fashioned but you wouldn't catch Walters or Doyle doing that, not with minutes left in a must win game. Granted the guy was knackered and worked hard, but it's the least we should expect. If we need a guy to play that role, just get Walters in there.
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
You play the formation that suits the best players you have. If we don't have a top defensive midfielder then we don't play with one, simple as.
We have three ball playing central midfielders and hard-working wingers. So we should play that way.
Put the round pegs in the round holes.
Let me rephrase then. He's a bum of a manager. Success of the past are noted and the memory of Paris will never fade. But ever since the man has consistently, ad nauseum, picked the lesser of the options available to him in his squads and teams.
Would you like to explain Glenn Whelan's contribution to the cause to me? Or perhaps John O'Shea's. And what has Paul McShane done? Darren O'Dea too. When the likes of Hoolahan and Joey O'Brien are left out and when McCarthy has been dropped to the bench in favor of a much inferior player, then Trap has an awful lot to answer for. If the truth was told and he had played the right players at the right time on Tuesday night last, we would have won the game. So Trap is a bum of a manager.
That seems a bit of an oversimplification, we don't have great center backs given Dunne is injured, St Ledger isnt fully fit, Clark is inexperienced and O'Shea can be absent minded, should we just not play with any center backs too?
I really don't think we can afford to just have primarily attacking or non defensive central midfielders, we would be putting way to much pressure on our defence
I have been arguing most of these points about Trap for most of the last 4-5 years (me and Paul). This is fun.
Most thought the selection of Green instead of McCarthy was a disaster about to happen in Sweden.Depends what change you mean. I am quite happy to see change and I believe that different players should be used and some of Trap's selections baffle me but that said, he picks them to suit HIS formation, tactics etc. That's what's he's paid to do. Most thought the selection of Green in Sweden would be a disaster. Time told otherwise. If Sweden scored in the last minute, which they almost did, we would have had the why not bring on Hoolahan 20 minutes earlier debate again etc. Such are the fine margins.
Will come back to the rest later. Have to go home for dinner
Most thought the late injury to Whelan was a blessing.
And at a guess, most were relatively content with a Green/McCarthy partnership as apposed to any other of the possible combination between Green/McCarthy/Whelan. For the second game in a row, it was evident that the McCarthy/Green was the most functional partnership on show in Trap's formation. Yet Trap tore it asunder to bring back a (fitness doubt) Whelan for the Austria game. Not a game loser on its own but definitely left more space in the middle, in the 2nd half for Austria to exploit and what was also evident (again), McCarthy is less effective with Whelan at his side.
I was content with what was achieved in Sweden, I wasn't going to be critical and focus about the possible changes etc that might have brought a win. All we had to do, imo, was win our home games, the rest would fall into place.
Last edited by geysir; 29/03/2013 at 8:53 AM.
Green seems to be the hardest worker from what I can see, he may not be the best on the ball
but that is rather immaterial if we can't win the ball.
When he came on against Poland suddenly we were winning the ball in midfield, same goes for the
Sweden match. Remember most people here thought we were going to get slaughtered with Green
on the pitch yet by the end of the games the very same people were saying we should have won it!!
Thus it seems rather bizarre he was dropped. I didn't see that much of the short time he was on v
Austria be he was hardly at fault for the goal.
Anyone else notice George Hamilton calling Shane Long "Doyle" in the build up to the Long back heel against the post? Twice! Plonker.
The midfield he suggests is a great balance in my opinion. Gibson and Mcarthy would operate as defensive midfielders but would vastly improve our chances of holding onto the ball. With Coleman and Wilson at full back we could start to resemble a decent footballing team.
----------------Forde
Coleman---Dunne---Sledger---Wilson
---------Gibson-----McCarthy
McGeady-----Hoolahan------McClean
----------------Long
Sammon, although hard to dislike the man for his attitude is not a good football player
Keane still has something to offer but can no longer be undropable
Walters is the man to be used when a target man is required
Whelan doesn't deserve to play
Green doesn't deserve to play, Meyler has more potential to fill this role
Keogh needs to go
Realistically Dunne mightn't play again, so reluctantly O'shea will be filling his role
I got to watch the game finally last night. I think there are a couple of myths arising from the other night.
1) That Sammon did anything of note. He didn't. He's a shocking player at this level. Wrong selection.
2) That Ireland as some sort of unstoppable machine from the 15th minute to the 50th. We were good but so were Austria. We defended their attacks well and took our chance better than they took theirs. We did truly dominate the first 10 minutes of the second half.
A couple of other points that have already been made...
McCarthy was excellent. He let no one down. But he was leggy towards the end. Not really his fault. He'll be the man to build our team around shortly.
Long was immense. It wasn't long ago (when long wasnt being picked) i was criticized for saying that Long was world class and our future. I think he's proven that now.
We worked so hard in this game. Truly credit to the team and to Trap for installing this. It was great to see. However, it did, inevitably, lead to tired legs and minds (plus it was the second game in 5 days obviously) and so the changes should have been made to recognize this. A big black mark against Trappatoni but that's been debated to death.
I have to say the analysis after these two games by all posters on this board is the best I've seen on foot.ie for years. Great reads.
I think Long being immense is another myth!
I thought Long made a few big errors. Early in second half he had a gereat chance to play an unmarked Walters in from a square ball from the right of the box but delayed and hit a poor ball. He also headed the ball at the only place the keeper could have saved it when a downward header was a goal all day long. (I think this was Long, though it was hard to tell). I know it was instinctive but I think that's Long all over - leaves too many chances out there. I thought he lost the rag too, playing like an immature cantakerous twit before he was taken off. If he'd kept his maturity he'd have been left on the pitch I reckon. 6/10 for me. What he did well he did brilliantly (9/10 stuff), but the blots on his copybook are hard to ignore.
Agree totally with (1) and (2) and yes, Trap deserves some credit for the work ethic and yes, not making the changes that were so obviously required is a major black mark against him.
The Austrian equaliser was perhaps the straw that broke the camel's back.I have to say the analysis after these two games by all posters on this board is the best I've seen on foot.ie for years. Great reads.
yeah, but you were wrong for the first 3 years
we just saw it before the rest of ye stutts
He wins the ball, yes, but the problem is that he then gives it away or kicks it into touch.
So what's the point of winning the ball if you can't keep it.
Your posts have infinitely improved. Sorry if that sounds completely patronizing!I have to say the analysis after these two games by all posters on this board is the best I've seen on foot.ie for years. Great reads.
Overall though, a good few analysis posts are obviously contradicting one another, whilst others, more worryingly, display a complete lack of tactical knowledge about how teams do (or should) set up...which does seem odd.
Exactly.we just saw it before the rest of ye stutts
I don't mind contradiction in analysis. It's the beauty of the game - everyone can have their own interpretation of displays, results, formations, tactics.
I wanna say more on this but I agree to say they were both dreadful on the night plus I think we are all preoccupied by Austria at present.
That game is really haunting us eh?
Last edited by BonnieShels; 29/03/2013 at 6:03 PM.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
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