QuoteCan't argue with you there. No right-thinking human being would do what they did to him. But you have to wonder why they're not right thinking, and what made them think like they doOriginally Posted by DolansWaistcoat
But no worse than Americans, right Eanna?
"Jacques Santini...will be greeted in every dugout of the country by "one-nil, one-nil" - Clive Tyldsley, 89th minute of France-England June 13, 2004.
"Ooooohhhh Nooooooo" Bobby Robson 91st minute.
Can't argue with you there. No right-thinking human being would do what they did to him. But you have to wonder why they're not right thinking, and what made them think like they do
But in their own eyes they are right-thinking, and that the western world per se is screwed up. Probably some truth in that, but we in the western world, americans included, would never subject a man to such a death and broadcast it on the net.
I know about Guantanamo Bay, Lindie England and all that which I don't condone either btw, but western civilisation is not teaching these people how to do this....and neither I believe is their religion. They are pure, blood thirsty barbarians, probably deprived of free speech and a worldly education.
Well thats the huge question. Especially given there are other regions which have suffered much worse "exploitation" (so to speak) from the West, and suffer larger atrocities than the middle east. Latin America has been exploited and generally messed around with by all the big powers at various stages pretty much since 1492, yet you dont tend to get things like this happening over there. Similarly, other countries have it substantially worse than Palestine in terms of occupied land - eg Armenia.
NB Im not saying the exploitation is right or wrong per say, more questioning why there is such a huge difference in reaction in different parts of the world.
You're spot on there. So the key to the question is why are Islamic extremists doing these things? I don't think any one factor can be blamed, but I do think "the west" has to look at itself for some of the answers. Like how muslims in france and britain are treated, how the turks are treated in germany and so on.
I'll give you a bit of trivia that might explain the hostility:
You know croissants, those delicious french breakfast snacks? The reason they are shaped as they are is because they represent the Muslim crescent (similar to the Christian cross) and they were made to celebrate victory over the moors during the time of the crusades. Now if we in the western world didn't have much access to education, were living in poverty an ignorance and saw pictures of people smearing jam on crucifixes and eating them for breakfast, I'd say some people would get kind of annoyed.
Similarly, there are several towns in the south of spain called "Matamoros" which literally means "kill moors" from the time when the moors were driven out of Spain by the christians.
Now I know these are irrelevant historical facts, but when people hear things like that and see the western powers on friendly terms with the governments which oppress them, then maybe they're entitled to get a bit ****ed now and again.
But cant those things be applied across to the situation in Latin America too? In Spanish towns, for example, there is usually a statue to Cortez or some other person associated with the conquistadors, even in Latin America itself places are named after such things (eg the Sea of Cortez, Bahia California) - how come, given the living conditions for most Latin Americans are broadly similar to those experienced by Middle Easterners, the level of reaction is so different? For instance there are sizable communities of Latin Americans in "Western" countries (eg Ecuadorians in Spain, or even Cuban and Mexicans in the US), they dont tend to get fair treatment and most have to work in dead-end jobs and suffer from a fair bit of descrimination. Equally well many of those who remain living in Latin America have suffered too, at the hands of regiemes propped up by the West (eg those "Dissappeared" by the Argentine Junta or executed in Stadiums in Chile). To me there seem to be lots of parallels between the plight (so to speak) of Muslims and Latin Americans but I dont get why the reaction to the oppression/conditions is so different.
There are a lot of similarities, but i guess it comes down to culture in many ways. Very hard to work out why one group of people reacts differently to another
Ya you're right to call them animals is to insult the animals who only kill out of instinct.
You mentioned a crocodile there,I'd have no problem whatsoever with throwing the scum who commit these crimes to a few hungry crocs.On second thoughts that would be too quick a death for them
Those people who did this should be punished, there's no question about that. But punishing the perpetrators of one crime won't solve anything. You have to take a two-pronged approach:
1. Punish anyone guilty of these crimes.
2. Investigate what motivated them to do so, and try to explain to people who may follow them what you're doing and why you're doing it.
Very true, Eanna, but very hard at the same time. The easy option is for people to say 'Oh, that's what they do in that religion'. Couldn't be further from the truth. Thses religions, such as Islam, etc, are all based on decency and kindness to all other life, be it human or animal.
Where do they get these ideas from?Who knows? Are they almost mercenary killers frightened into these acts by their bosses-bear in mind, one of them helped Bigley's attempt at escaping AFAIK- or is it much more sinister?
Will this become bigger, will more and more of these killings happen(there's enough as it is) but will it grow? Let's hope not.
well if "the west" (sorry about the "s but I hate the phrase) reacts only by promising to hunt down those responsible, I can only see it getting worse. It is very hard to do anything but want to punish those responsible, but that is the only way forward. Blaming it on "murderers" or on Islam just doesn't work. The US, Britain and other countries have taken a very simplistic view- "we're good, they're evil." That has never worked and never will. Put it this way, however good a cowboy Bush is, he won''t shoot his way out of this.
So, do you envisage a situation where these people do as they please and go unpunished? The human rights abuses they perpetrate against their own for not following the will of allah or whoever it is they worship should go ignored?
I don't think so.
The problem here is that the Americans are only seeing dollar signs and using the human rights issue as a smokescreen.
So, what is the solution??
unplug Sky, stop buying the "irish" Mirror and concentrate on why we have a political system based on a civil war?So, what is the solution??
i dont think there is a quick fix solution. Muslims and christianity have been fighting since mohammeds brother went-a-converting. maybe the solution is to stop the US acting like the world police, its tampering in issues that have nothing to do with it have led to much of the instabilities around the world. but then again, they're gold in them thar dunes.
money makes the world go round, as they say, and therefore people will always fight over it, and people like Ken Bigley and others will continue to die...
Who was it that actually killed him anyway? Media reports suggest that it was the actual leader of this militant group that carries out the executions himself....sick bast*ard
the media need a new monster.
so of course, to go one better than osama's evil "sitting in a cave" routine, they've decided that this fella actually does the murder himself.
yeah, but whats his name?
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
or billy as his friends call him.
not very interested in getting into this but in a totally discreditable situation the leader doing the dirty work in a warped way is kinda creditworthy.
"I don’t want to tempt fate, but Thierry Henry is not having one of his best nights." - RTE co-commentator Jim Beglin, minutes before TH struck the stunning winner.
so you think its cool that the leader personally got his hands dirty on this one??
I believe it creditworthy in a normally run company if the MD or senior management roll up their sleeves and pack boxes or work on production lines, but this......please tell me you're kidding me.
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