Hair-splitting?Originally Posted by Conor74
You are a lawyer, you know quite well the vast difference between a sweeping generalisation and an accurate description.
Your point about posts defending "fanatical despots" is fair enough, but too often a post pointing out the failings/lies/crimes of Western Governments is used as an excuse by some people to somehow "prove" that you are a friend/supporter of terrorism/fanatics.
Maybe if successive American administrations had not been involved in some extremely shady and deadly dealings in these countries, the welcome would have been better?
On top of that, supporters of teams tend to do whatever they can to upset and annoy the opposition.
Fact No.1.-The Americans started this conflict.
Fact No.2.-Tony Blair is an arse-licking coward who would do anything to stay in the US good books.
Fact No.3.-There is well paid work in Iraq for civilians, non-military personnel, and this provides a great opportunity for people like Bigley to earn some cash for the latter years of his life.
Fact No.4. Yes there is an element of danger attached.
Synopsis: Ken Bigley would still be alive today if Mr. Bush wasn't driven by his fathers demons, and also if Mr. Blair wasnt a yes man for him. He did not deserve to die, none of the innocent civilians in any conflict do.Anyone on here who is justifying this as an act of war or saying its his own fault is a very shallow individual, and those who call him greedy obviously have no families and money worries of their own to consider because if they did, then they'd surely understand why people like Mr. Bigley take these chances.
Shame on you all.
Why, because we dare to have a different opinion to you, that goes against the grain of the media hysteria?Shame on you all.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Opinion is the key word there....and you all know mine now. I'm not saying you're not entitled to one.
But it doesn't make me shallow. IMO it would be shallow to risk your life, and potentially leaving the women you love a widow, for extra bucks. But again that's just my opinion.
My old man worked on oil tankers, and during the Iran Iraq war could've taken mega money to work the gulf. He wouldn't take the potential risk for the sake of the family, despite the fact that the money would've made us a hell of a lot better off....
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
News today is all about the mass graves in Iraq. Toddlers clutching toys, mothers holding babies, shot in the head, along with all the people who were gassed. Investigators think that 300,00 people were killed by Saddam's soldiers. That's 100 world trade centres. I honestly feel for Bigley's family, I really do, but Saddam was a f*cking monster.
Western intelligence was apalling; he had no suitcase sized nukes, no missiles primed with anthrax ready to hit Cyprus within 45 minutes. At best Bush and Blair are gullible, at worst they're outright liars. The war has been a b*lls up. They brought down the dictator, and left a huge sucking vaccum in his place. The American puppet administration probably won't last long,and the whole thing'll drag on forever.
The two women Bigley's murderers wanted released were germ and chemical warfare specialists. Same crowd who filled the graves with slaughtered innocents whose bodies they're digging out of the ground today. Letting them go right now really isn't an option. They need to stand trial.
Bigley was working in a ridiculously dangerous part of the world. The risks to his personal safety were incalculable. Westerners walking round in that part of the world right now are invaluable, either for political demands, or cash, which can be used to set up gangsters and warlords building their own empires in the post Saddam Iraq.
Tea. Corduroy. Space Travel.
Thing is, a hell of a lot of that went on when Saddam was still a "good guy". There's been many many times when the US/UK should've gone after Saddam, with good reason. Instead they waited until it was convenient for the US, based on lie's...
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Agreed, and also does anyone else think that the Saddam issue was very personal for Bush because of his fathers inability to finish the job in '91?
Surely ridding the world of Al Qaida and Bin Laden should have been the priority at the time, not Saddam.
Having said that I'm gad he's out of the picture.Don't be surprised for them to 'capture' Bin Laden just before the election either. They could already have him in storage for emergencies in the polls...
Well, sadly that's true. When it comes to world leaders, we're never ever going to be short of w*nkers. He killed all these people when he was the West's bitch. He was a madman, but a secular madman, and Reagan and Thatcher thought he was a safe bet compared to a perceived wave of born again Muslims.
They pulled the same trick in South America don't forget, propping up torturers, liars and thieves with cash, guns and training, purely to stop the Reds. Pinnochet may yet still face justice for his crimes. And he was arrested coming out of Thatcher's house after afternoon tea.
Tea. Corduroy. Space Travel.
They are still attempting to pull that off. If anyone saw the excellent documentary on Chavez in Venezuela, and how what actually happened was portrayed by the US in particular, and the Venezuela right wing media compared to what actually did happen....
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Didn't see it.
But, yes you're right. Same as it ever was...
Tea. Corduroy. Space Travel.
Chavez - Inside the Coup it was called. Think the BBC part funded it, so it should've been on the beeb at some point and will no doubt be repeated. Keep an eye out for it, as it is excellent.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Bowling for Columbine was on RTÉ2 last Fri. night, highlighted amongst other things the way the US threw money at dictatorships in Guatemala [ I think], Iraq, Iran, Chile and Afghanistan. And of course it blew up in their faces.
j'accuse!
Too right fella!
I'm personally all for us putting every Euro of the Celtic Tiger economy into supporting Branson's space mission to the hilt, and us all fecking off to build the colony of New Hibernia on Mars, thus re-painting the red planet green, and finally populating it with millions of actual little green men. F*ck the lot of 'em, we're out of here!
Tea. Corduroy. Space Travel.
They are soldiers that's their job. So if they get caught up in fighting and happen to die, well then that was a potential side effect of their career choice. Or did they just join up to make a deafness claim?
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
No, the reason he was out there in the first place is relevant, IMO. Which was to make a financial killing, because he was essentially getting danger money. Unfortunately, he found out what the risks were.
I dare say me or you could get a job out there for big bucks. I won't because the risks are too great, despite the fact the mortgage could be paid off in a year or two.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
spot on davros. I made this point to some Americans in a politics tutorial in college once. They were going on about the evils of fundamentalism, what they don't appreciate is that their country is fundamentalist too-the US is based on fundamentalist capitalism and the belief that their system is best and everyone should do the same as them. Al Qaeda believe Islamic fundamentalism is best and everyone should do the same. They are two extremes, and extremism won't solve anything. They both have justifiable grievances with the other, but finding a middle ground is the only possible solution.
Saw that yeah. And the US calls itself a democracyIts so similar to their participation in the overthrow and murder of Salvador Allende in Chile in 73.
well if he is warned that continuing his job might lead to it and has the chance to another job but says "No, I'll take the risk, the money here is better" then yeah, tough.
Conor, you're an intelligent guy, its relevance is staring you in the face.It is precisely because of his income/career that he put himself in the position in the first place. that doesn't make it, or justifiable or acceptable. But it is connected.
One of the lads at work had the web site which showed Bigley and the Americans being beheaded,I wish I hadn't watched it now because it was the most disturbing thing I have ever seen.The people who did this to another human being are nothing but animals who deserve nothing but a worse death themselves.
Oh Christ, you can't see things like that without being damaged by it. People, just don't. Please.
Thing is, they're not animals, they're people like you and I, and that's what makes it even worse. If it was a .mov of some guy being eaten alive by a crocodile it'd almost be better in a dreadful way, if you know what I mean. An animal doesn't have a choice, it's just doing what it does to survive. The fckers who killed Bigley had a choice.
Tea. Corduroy. Space Travel.
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