Opinion on Norn Iron and our fans

[lopez]

Baku's the sort of tourist spot I'd visit once bored with Fiji and the Galpagos Islands.

That bad! I dig your can, man!

There's also a broad similarity. Two have separatist movements which attract minority support (and haven't done otherwise in living memory). The other has...the same as the first two

Nice coin of phrase: Separatist. Except Scotland and Wales is independence seeking, in Ireland it's irredentist. Still just over 1% for an independent Northern Ireland (as opposed to Ireland) and not climbing.

No, nothing I've ever said here suggests that. So, make up your mind- d'ye want to persist with a half-hearted straw man argument, or tell us some more Danish fairy tales?

The words 'country' come to mind. 'There once was an ugly duckling...'

I just read a book about the history of Pakistan. That was the slogan of its 70s dictator, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. They hanged him, alas

Sounds interesting. How does a country (Post-independence/Pre Bangladeshi independence, Pakistan) which was as much a marriage made in heaven as combining Ireland and Poland on the basis that both countries are Catholic, be compared with the union of NI with England and Scotland.

You're wilfully ignoring England fans wanting England to win England games..

I am. I'm talking about the rest of the country and perhaps the players themselves.

The hood has been claiming some strange compadres recently- Paisley, Ervine and now Jim Reeves's mates?.

I'd be careful what you say about Jim Reeves round these parts. It's a bit like mentioning the British Army on ourweeminds, and bound to get a few gombeens out declaring a fatwah on you. He may be a red-necked, racist motherf*cka but he's still revered in places like the Galtymore...and my old man's house. 'Welcome to my World/ Won't you come on in?' FFS. Him and that other Hicksville resident, Pat f*ckin' Boone.

It's the Palace of Culture and Science. Best view in town as ye can't see etc. as the local joke goes.

Wish you had got Krakow now, eh?

[Duncan Gardner]

I join you in condemning unreservedly all violence.

Anyway, back to the Gentleman, and commending Sr Lopez senior on his excellent taste. Here's a top five

1 He'll have to go
2 Distant drums
3 I love you because
4 A fool such as I
5 Burn baby burn

I think we'll do Warsaw as a one-night trip, will prob be expensive during Easter week.

[lopez]

1 He'll have to go

Quite popular at the moment on the other side of the North Channel.

2 Distant drums

Ho! Ho! Wonder where he got the idea for that one?

3 I love you because

4 A fool such as I

5 Burn baby burn

Always thought that one was by The Trammps? 'Satisfaction!! (uhu hu hu)/ Came in the chain reaction (burnin')/ I couldn't get enough, (till I had to self-destroy)/So I had to self destruct, (uhu hu hu).' Can't imagine Gentleman Jim coming up with that one...oh wait a minute...I see.

[MikeNI]

Pardon my ignorance for not replying but with Paris and a virus infection I had midweek I completely forgot to reply. Firstly, welcome.

Thank you sir...I've been off the site for a while so here's my belated reply...

Secondly, I agree with many of your points but there are people that are trying to claim NI as a distinct country - which it clearly isn't as you half concede (recognised as a part of the EU? I don't think so. Well no more than Murcia or the city of Bremen.) and parties for independence in NI elections show. NI has no special status. It isn't independent. It is not jointly governed. It's a region of the United Kingdom where nearly half the population wish for some form of change in the relation to the country. I do hate lecturing people from Northern Ireland on the status of their place but if they insist on equating it with Canada then what am I supposed to do?

Sure, NI isn't an independent nation-state like Canada - however it is recognised within the UK as one of four countries that comprise it.

I'm quite willing to accept that as the formulators of modern football this is the real reason why there are four British teams. However, in preventing a conflict of interests, why are they allowed to either not all play each other in one group or not be totally separated? In Spain, the reserve teams of clubs are not allowed to play in the same league as themselves.

I don't think that analogy applies. You could play for Barcelona one week and Barcelona B the next, you can play for England and Scotland, or Wales and Northern Ireland.

The incident of the qualification of the 1986 World Cup is well known. No one can argue that the game that put NI on the verge of qualifying - your win in Bucharest in October 1985 - was anything but impressive, but the draw at Wembley the following month wasn't. I remember at the time all of us over for the Denmark game were saying that there will be no other result than a draw. Not being much of a betting man I would have loved to have seen the odds for that result. NI fans can foam at the mouth at this 'slur' all they like (the slur is intended at In-ger-land who like to see their British brothers at big competitions, than the other way round)

Pat Jennings pulled off some great saves in that match, two excellent ones from Hoddle and Dixon in particular, which could not possibly have been staged. Can you imagine Gary Lineker fixing a match? Or Terry Butcher not wanting England to win? Alan McDonald's anger that night was certainly real.

[Pat O' Banton]

Pat Jennings pulled off some great saves in that match, two excellent ones from Hoddle and Dixon in particular, which could not possibly have been staged. Can you imagine Gary Lineker fixing a match? Or Terry Butcher not wanting England to win? Alan McDonald's anger that night was certainly real.

Ingerland played Kerry Dixon that night? I think that this prooves that they were accepting a 0-0 draw from the start!

[lopez]

Sure, NI isn't an independent nation-state like Canada - however it is recognised within the UK as one of four countries that comprise it.

I'd accept that - although there is a danger here of me going down the old 'it was actually Ireland that was the fourth country and the majority voted for it to leave' line - but the point that I and others are saying and which you said yourself is that it isn't a 'country' in the terms that most countries need to play in the World Cup. And despite its own parliament, Britain is not a federal state. England has no parliament and besides a nation within a federal state would have the right to secede as a whole from the state if democracy deems it, not the bit that's no longer worth the effort keeping. (Sorry I'm off again). Anyway, this is like saying you say tom8to and I say tom-ah-to.

I don't think that analogy applies. You could play for Barcelona one week and Barcelona B the next, you can play for England and Scotland, or Wales and Northern Ireland.

Well you can't play for Barcelona one week and Barca B the next. You have to wait for the transfer window. Hence the Don Balon Liga Xtra lists both teams as having separate squads. But point taken. But when you get four teams from the same country, there's still a conflict of interests. Imagine the old Soviet Union if they had X number of teams and a defeat in a group game would eliminate a Soviet side. And Germany and Austria in 1982, although here it guaranteed both qualification?

Pat Jennings pulled off some great saves in that match, two excellent ones from Hoddle and Dixon in particular, which could not possibly have been staged. Can you imagine Gary Lineker fixing a match? Or Terry Butcher not wanting England to win? Alan McDonald's anger that night was certainly real.

I didn't watch the match - which is I admit admitting an ammount of ignorance - as I was off cavorting with a Danish supporter at the time I'd met on the red-eye from Holyhead the night before. But I do remember that the result to please all sides was a draw. I'd take your word about the game though, and I don't mean 'I'll take your word, but really, I don't believe you' although Alan McDonald angry after just qualifying for a World Cup? Are you having a laugh? What the f*ck was he angry about?

Still be interested to see what the odds were prior to the game though.

[MikeNI]

Imagine the old Soviet Union if they had X number of teams and a defeat in a group game would eliminate a Soviet side.

I think that had it not been an authoritarian state they would've happily competed against each other - I don't think players from the Home Countries really take their Britishness into account like you would think.

I didn't watch the match - which is I admit admitting an ammount of ignorance - as I was off cavorting with a Danish supporter at the time I'd met on the red-eye from Holyhead the night before. But I do remember that the result to please all sides was a draw. I'd take your word about the game though, and I don't mean 'I'll take your word, but really, I don't believe you' although Alan McDonald angry after just qualifying for a World Cup? Are you having a laugh? What the f*ck was he angry about?

It's one of the all-time Norn Iron TV classics - Tony Gubba (I think) was interviewing McDonald after the match, McDonald (reacting to England fans shouting "It's a fix" glared down the camera and snarled - "If anyone says that's a fix they can come and see me, and I'll tell them it wasn't a fix. Cos we bloody earned that, and anyone who says different is a joke." Still one of my favourite video clips

[lopez]

I think that had it not been an authoritarian state they would've happily competed against each other - I don't think players from the Home Countries really take their Britishness into account like you would think.

Well looking at the post-communist era, I'd be a t*t not to agree with you, although the Macedonians were going hammer and tongs both on and off the field to make sure their cousins north were represented at Euro 2000. I don't know why they ever voted themselves out of the FRY. And Cyprus? Showing myself as a bit of saddo here, but I used to think Terry the syrup was talking sh*te about Cyprus giving Greece the old 'douze points' and vice versa in the European Song Contest, but he's right. Would you trust these two seperate 'sovereign' states not to stitch you up, if they were in the same situation as you and the tans were in 85?

It's one of the all-time Norn Iron TV classics - Tony Gubba (I think) was interviewing McDonald after the match, McDonald (reacting to England fans shouting "It's a fix" glared down the camera and snarled - "If anyone says that's a fix they can come and see me, and I'll tell them it wasn't a fix. Cos we bloody earned that, and anyone who says different is a joke." Still one of my favourite video clips

Well I'm all up for suggesting the game was a fix to you behind the safety of my keyboard, but I'll pass on Alan's offer for me to tell him it to his face.

Obviously,mainly agree with the good Senor .......though MNI seems uncharacteristically reasonable,cf.DG,LI,JB,MD et al ......

You can't place my good friend - and yours - Duncan in the same boat as Fux, Marcellus, Dog Sh*te and our new addition, Charlie Chan, who has yet to make a post resembling anything sensible. Infamy, infamy, these Fenians have all got it infamy!

[Duncan Gardner]

Davros's memory fails him. There were at least 10,000 NI fans at that game.

Less of the compliments, Lopez. This is turning into a mutual love-in

[gspain]

I was in Romania a couple of months ago and a colleague mentioned the game and they are convinced that the game in 85 was rigged. However the Danes are likewise that our game v NI in 93 was also rigged.

I watched the 85 game on TV and Pat Jennings made many superb saves including a spectacular one late on. BTW Kerry Dixon also played in the finals so it wasn't a case of picking a crap striker. He was actually quite a decent one in his day. NI beat romania H&A in that group so deserved their place in the finals.

As for Macedonia yah the locals left us in no doubt where their loyalties lay but just an awful day all round. No real issue with them giving it socks. We threw that game away.

[lopez]

Less of the compliments, Lopez. This is turning into a mutual love-in

I agree with yer here. It's just that Mike - dare I say , like yerself - is able to put up a decent argument without referring to either a wild imagination, a liberal use of a certain word beginning with 'B', or Pulp Fiction.

[Duncan Gardner]

yerself - is able to put up a decent argument without referring to either a wild imagination, a liberal use of a certain word beginning with 'B'

Buns?