QuoteBut this is the maddest thing. This is not the trial. This is just the bail hearing.
Naturally enough, I was stunned when news of a woman being shot at the home of Oscar Pistorius broke the other day. Developments since have ranged from tragic to extraordinary, so just starting a thread for anyone interested in discussing these as this is a major sports story that may run for quite some time.
A summary of developments in relation to Pistorius' murder charge (all claims referenced on Wikipedia):
On 14 February 2013, it was reported that a woman had been shot and killed at Pistorius's Pretoria gated community home, with one police spokesman reportedly stating the woman was Reeva Steenkamp, Pistorius's girlfriend. Johannesburg's Talk Radio 702 told Sky News that police had arrested a 26-year-old man believed to be Pistorius on suspicion of murder and a 9mm pistol was recovered from the scene. Chief investigating officer Hilton Botha later confirmed that he arrived at the house at 04:15, to be met by Pistorius, his brother and a lawyer. Steenkamp was found lying dead on the ground floor, wearing white shorts and a black vest, covered in towels.
Police charged Pistorius with Steenkamp's murder, and Pistorius appeared in the Magistrates Court in Pretoria on 15 February, to face formal premeditated murder charges. The presiding magistrate, the Chief Magistrate of Pretoria Desmond Nair, accepted the defence's application for postponing a bail hearing until 19 February. Pistorius remained in custody at Brooklyn Police Station pending his bail hearing. Pistorius's defence team headed by Barry Roux, submitted an affidavit to the magistrate, which outlined their request for bail. During his bail hearing, the prosecution claimed that Pistorius fired four shots through a locked bathroom door, hitting Steenkamp three times inside the bathroom. In court on 19 February 2013, Pistorius stated he feared there had been a break-in, and he did not know Steenkamp was on the other side of the door. However, in evidence to the bail hearing, chief investigating officer Hilton Botha stated during cross-examination that there were no police records of Pistorius having previously reported death threats or other crimes, but admitted that police had made procedural mistakes during the initial investigation of Pistorius' home, and had found no evidence that directly contradicted Pistorius' account of the shooting. Later, prosecutors questioned Botha again, and he said the distance was closer.
Prosecutor Gerrie Nel argued that Pistorius could not have gone past his bed without having seen that Steenkamp was not in it. Botha also said that .38-calibre pistol rounds were found in a safe, but that no pictures were taken of them, and that the ammunition was taken away by others at the scene.
Further details on the conflicting accounts here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21516664
In the latest bizarre twist, it turns out that Detective Hilton Botha is facing 7 attempted murder charges himself (unrelated to Pistorius' murder charge): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21528631
The BBC's brief overview of the South African justice system:The South African detective leading the Oscar Pistorius inquiry is facing seven charges of attempted murder, police have confirmed.
Detective Hilton Botha, who has faced fierce questioning at Mr Pistorius's bail hearing, was allegedly involved in a shooting two years ago.
...
Police spokesman Neville Malila said that Det Botha and two other officers were due to appear in court in May.
Mr Malila said it was alleged that while driving a state-owned vehicle the three had opened fire on a minibus taxi loaded with passengers.
The three were arrested in 2011, Eyewitness News says, citing police.
Mr Malila said the charges against Det Botha had originally been dropped but were reinstated.
It is unclear when this took place or whether Det Botha will continue working on the case.
Medupe Simasiku, a spokesman for the Pistorius prosecutors, told Associated Press they were unaware of the charges and would now investigate whether the detective should remain.
The BBC's Peter Biles in Pretoria says the police statement concerning Det Botha is an extraordinary turn of events.
...
Correspondents say Det Botha's evidence on Wednesday appeared first to boost the prosecution's case and then offer the defence a hope of winning the argument.
Det Botha told the court that the trajectory of gunshots through the bathroom door indicated that Mr Pistorius, a double amputee, was wearing his prosthetic legs and shot downwards through the door.
This contradicted an earlier account given by Mr Pistorius, who said he was walking on his stumps and grabbed his gun because he felt vulnerable when he thought an intruder had entered.
Where and how did the killing happen?
The detective then said a witness had said he heard fighting at Mr Pistorius's home on the night Ms Steenkamp was shot.
Det Botha initially said the witness was some 600m (1,800ft) away, but later amended his answer to 300m after a break for lunch.
Mr Pistorius's family said the changes were "extremely concerning".
Det Botha said police had lost lost track of ammunition found inside the house.
The detective was also accused of not wearing protective clothing at the crime scene.
The defence also countered police suggestions that testosterone and needles had been found in Mr Pistorius's bedroom, arguing instead that the substance was a herbal remedy, called Testocompasutium co-enzyme.
The magistrate appeared to question Det Botha's assertion that Mr Pistorius could be a flight risk who should be denied bail.
The Pistorius family issued a statement saying they were "satisfied with the outcome" of Wednesday's proceedings.
The magistrate has deemed this a "schedule six" case, meaning Mr Pistorius is accused of premeditated murder.
His defence team will have to prove the extenuating circumstances that would justify granting bail.
- Jury trials were scrapped more than 40 years ago because all-white juries were seen as unlikely to give black defendants a fair trial.
- A single judge is considered less susceptible to public opinion or media comments.
- So the South African media is more free to report details about the Oscar Pistorius case than the media in many other countries where such reporting would be seen as prejudicial.
A single individual less susceptible to public opinion and media comments than a group of individuals? Not sure of the logic behind that.
Anyway, the bail hearing continues into its third day...
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 21/02/2013 at 8:38 AM.
But this is the maddest thing. This is not the trial. This is just the bail hearing.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Hehe, indeed, although 'The Bail Hearing of Oscar Pistorius' isn't as snappy for a title and is a bit more limited in scope.
I was talking about the thread title. It is part of teh trial process so you are correct in some sense. I'm just aghast at how they are, from my pov, mishandling a bail hearing.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
"mishandling", Bonnie - how so? Not that i agree or disagree, just curious on your perspective.
From my understanding, this is all "just part of the judicial system" and the openness of information, debate, proceedings and media coverage is simply not considered as privileged there as it is elsewhere...
The level of coverage dedicated to it will inevitably lead to the reporting of every major or minor detail, be that a perceived mishandling, mishap or whatever. The BBC site does a live updates service, for example, and I'm sure plenty of other sites do too. To sustain such a facility, rolling news is required. What is fairly standard or usual practice may be blown somewhat out of proportion as a result.
Botha has been replaced as the lead detective in the case by a Lt. Gen. Vineshkumar Moonoo, South Africa's most senior detective, with the bail decision expected today.
It's a bail hearing that has lasted 4 days and the coverage has been incredible.Originally Posted by SkStu
I read more about SA's judicial system afterwards and it doesn't seem that this would be out of the norm. I just can't get my Irish head around it.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
He has been granted Bail. Unexpected to me anyway.. but then this has all been pretty mental!
Aside- is this not a lot more current affairs than other sport?
#NeverStopNotGivingUp
Crikey! It emerges that Carl Pistorius, Oscar's brother, is facing a culpable homicide charge over a 2010 road death from a car accident in which he was involved: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21563911
The brother of South African athlete Oscar Pistorius - accused of murdering his girlfriend - is also facing trial over the death of a woman.
Carl Pistorius is charged with culpable homicide over the death of a woman motorcyclist in a traffic accident, his lawyer said.
The case has no relation to the charges against Oscar Pistorius over the shooting of Reeva Steenkamp.
...
The charges against Carl Pistorius over an accident involving his car in which a woman on a motorcycle died date back to 2010 but have only just emerged, local media reports say.
They were confirmed to the BBC by Pistorius family lawyer Kenneth Oldwage.
The accident took place in the town of Vanderbijlpark, an hour's drive south of Johannesburg.
Police conducted tests on Carl Pistorius and he was found to have no alcohol in his blood at the time, the BBC's Milton Nkosi in Johannesburg says.
He is due in court at the end of March, which means his trial may end before his younger brother Oscar's is due to begin on 4 June.
"Oscar Pistorius 'twice called to interrupt innocent meeting between Reeva Steenkamp and her former long-term boyfriend in the days before her death'": http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...h-8528225.html
The BBC documentary was broadcast last night and can be viewed here on iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ally_Happened/A BBC documentary will tonight claim that Oscar Pistorius’ murdered girlfriend met with her former long-term boyfriend in the days before her death.
Following news that he is “on the verge of suicide” after being charged with Reeva Steenkamp’s murder, a BBC Three documentary titled ‘Oscar Pistorius… What Really Happened?’ is set to accuse the Olympian of twice calling to interrupt an “innocent” conversation between Ms Steenkamp and her ex-boyfriend Warren Lahoud.
The pair are said to have met for a coffee in “innocent circumstances” just days before Ms Steenkamp was killed, but were interrupted twice in the space of 40 minutes by phone calls from Pistorius.
Mr Lahoud reportedly said: “I said ‘is everything ok. I mean he’s phoned twice already, every twenty minutes’. I asked her that question. She said ‘there’s nothing wrong’“.
Mr Lahoud claims he had previously met Pistorius on two occasions, adding: “there was never anything negative out of it at all. [It was fine]…no problem at all.”
The news comes as a friend of Pistorius claimed he is “on the verge of suicide” as he is forced to sell off his belongings to fight a charge of premeditated murder.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 12/03/2013 at 7:54 AM.
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