Republic of Ireland V Poland - Wednesday, 6th February 2013 - Friendly

[Paddy Garcia]

You are assuming that Shay had lost his pride when he retired. I seriously doubt if there was 'a lack of pride' involved with the original decision.
Shay, by making himself available if we need him, is not showing any disrespect.
That's the way it should be.

ok ..but why do we need him more now than when he retired?

.... & we did not have a Bunn in the err tent back in the summer!

[Supreme feet]

Interesting squad, good to see Cunningham, Pilkington and Hendrick in there. Underwhelmed by the continuing presence of O'Dea, McShane, Cox and Andy Keogh. Don't necessarily see what Richard Keogh and Sammon will add to the squad either, would have been happier to see Pearce and O'Brien.

Interesting comparing the make-up of this squad to that of five years ago - for our friendly against Brazil in 2008, Givens was able to pick a 21-man squad containing only two second-tier players, with 18 EPL players. This 27-man squad contains 12 EPL and 13 Championship players, plus our wonderful Toronto FC centre-back. Not the most encouraging trend.

[geysir]

ok ..but why do we need him more now than when he retired?

.... & we did not have a Bunn in the err tent back in the summer!

There might be a situation where we do need to call him up, just as we could have done with a good keeper when we played without Shay against the Czech Rep at Croke Pk. So he is available for that call.
Apart from the debate about whether he is good enough, he has a value even if he is just called into the squad as back up, as he is (imo) our most prized example of a consummate professional. I'd leave it up to Trap to adjudicate on whether that is needed. I'd say Trap's inclination is to go with what we have.

[Crosby87]

All we need to do is have one of our lads sneak into the Poles dressing room before the match and tie thier shoe laces together, and this will be an absolute trip for us.

[Sullivinho]

All we need to do is have one of our lads sneak into the Poles dressing room before the match and tie thier shoe laces together, and this will be an absolute trip for us.

Cox should be well able to slip into the Pole's private area, no bother.

[Crosby87]

With Long in front of him no doubt.

[pineapple stu]

Just on Sammon, I know I'm biased (!), but I've been saying for a couple of years that he might be a decent option for Trap. He's a decent outlet player in the style that really only Walters carries out for us at the moment. Hoof the ball up to him and he'll hold off a defender and give the rest of the team time to get up the pitch. Seems to suit our not-exactly-cultured style of play. Whether he's international standard (can't believe I'm writing that) remains to be seen, and he'll presumably not get a run against Poland given Trap's take on first-time call-ups, but he could have a role to play alright.

[Charlie Darwin]

I was amused to see Trap mention his technique as his best attribute. If that's true then we're truly screwed.

[pineapple stu]

This, rather than losing 6-1 to Germany, is the giveaway to reach that conclusion?

[DannyInvincible]

Whether he's international standard (can't believe I'm writing that) remains to be seen, and he'll presumably not get a run against Poland given Trap's take on first-time call-ups, but he could have a role to play alright.

What is the meaning of "international standard" anyway? Does its utterance have any worth really? When someone tells us a certain player isn't up to this supposed "international standard", aren't they just attempting to convince us that what is merely their personal lowly opinion of a particular player is in fact a quasi-objective statement supported by some impartial framework or standard? As with any international team, we have to make do with what we have and test our options. If a certain player can perform some role for us, then great; call him up. We won't know what a player's like until we give him a reasonable chance (based on previous club form, of course).

[Charlie Darwin]

International standard is an odd concept. Does it mean up to the standard of other players in the national squad, or is it some sort of broader standard across the international game, or a mixture of both?

[pineapple stu]

Is it not really an out-dated concept, going back to when international football was arguably stronger than club football? Makes sense if you consider club teams comprising almost entirely of players from that country, so the national team was the best of the best. Now club teams are stronger than international teams because they can be the best of the best, without any nationality rules.

There was always this thing that even the top young players needed time to adjust to the pace of international football, but I don't think that holds any more really.

"International quality" these days I suppose means "good enough to play for Ireland", whatever that means. Improving the team, I suppose.

[geysir]

The current bog standard for a forward would be - is he better than Andy Keogh?
And if you have to think about the answer for longer than 5 seconds, then you don't think such and such a player is up to our intl standard.

[wonder88]

Bit of surprise Joey O Brien not in squad. Will there be a big crowd at this game ? I hope to go, but will leave ticket purchase to the day of match.

[osarusan]

I hate the phrase 'international standard'. "He's not international standard" - yes he is, if there is nobody else who is better than him.

[Bungle]

Have to say when you look at the individual players we have, I would say man for man we are generally better than Sweden (bar them having Ibra obviously) and certainly a good bit better than Austria. Coleman and McCarthy are imo two of the best young players in the premiership, Long is a very good striker even if he isn't playing much for WBA at the moment, Walters is very decent, Pilkington and Hoolahan are Norwich's two best players, while Wilson and O'Brien are comfortably good premiership players. McGeady plays for a good team in Russia, while O'Shea has played at the very highest level for one of the biggest clubs in the world. McClean is the kind of fella that is predictable, but I still think he is going to cause the vast majority of premiership/international players a headache. If Dunney comes back, he won't be or is unlikely to be what he was, but he still brings so much to the table.

I know a number of those guys mightn't play in March because of injury or not being considered experienced enough for big competitive games by Trap, but I really do think that we have the bones of a very decent team. I appreciate we don't have a Ronnie Whelan or Brady, a Lawro, Beglin or McGrath, but I do think that we are seriously setting our standards low, if we accept that those players shouldn't be able to compete for 2nd with Sweden.

[Paddy Garcia]

There might be a situation where we do need to call him up, just as we could have done with a good keeper when we played without Shay against the Czech Rep at Croke Pk. So he is available for that call.
Apart from the debate about whether he is good enough, he has a value even if he is just called into the squad as back up, as he is (imo) our most prized example of a consummate professional. I'd leave it up to Trap to adjudicate on whether that is needed. I'd say Trap's inclination is to go with what we have.

I agree with all of that.

My question is that the motivation is about Shay's needs not Ireland's - otherwise he would have left the door open when he retired. And the crux is if he was playing first team football then I don't believe we would have received any offer from him.

On a broader issue many players from more successful era's were willing to play until they (almost) dropped - I guess I always expected the same from Shay - especially as a goalkeeper.

[geysir]

Thing is, we don't know the whys and we don't know about the injuries that Shay has been picking up.
Could be that Shay should have been resting his injured body over the summer instead of getting match fit for the Euros. Could be, he knows he's lost a few degrees. He has always been motivated to a point of obsession to play, even in useless friendlies, much the discomfort of Kiely. You can be cynical about his motivation in making himself available for selection due to the timing, but you have to admit it does not fit in with the player's conduct except the part where he's obsessed to play for his country and now perhaps wants it back.

[Paddy Garcia]

True - more skeptical than cynical!

[Bungle]

I never understand why players retire from international football. I mean I'd personally have Westwood as our number 1, even if Shay did return, but if I was Shay I wouldn't have retired. Duffer if he was available would still be one of our best players and would be essential in places like Stockholm or Vienna, where a cool experienced head is needed. His decision is even more baffling.

I don't want to be critical of either of those lads, because they have been great players for us and by all accounts they are both sound lads. However, I find it hard to listen to this thing of them wanting to spend more time with their families, when they are home from training by 1 every day (not like most of us fans) or them wanting younger lads to come through and not be in the way of them becoming international players. If you ask me, this goes against the competitive nature that made both of these fellas the world class players that they were. Anyhow, I'd love Duffer to come back and I wouldn't mind Shay being back in the squad, if he was fit.