England V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 29th May 2013 - Friendly

**Stuttgart88** · 30/05/2013, 9:23 PM

It's also 'Forde hasn't made any mistakes yet but he will and when he does I'll be the wise owl who told you so'. It's like knowing England would have beaten us if it was for real, just like all those other teams we played away for real in the last 6 years, and just like England beat Ukraine and Macedonia and whoever else they failed to beat for real in the last few years.

We're ganging up on you Paul! Funny, you looked very happy last night

**elroy** · 30/05/2013, 10:03 PM

Solid performance. However our inability or reluctance to hold the ball/maintain possession is killing this team.

In the second half, particularly the last 20 mins. All we did was hoof the ball up field and give it back to England. As a result, we dropped deeper and deeper and resulted in having almost every player in our half behind the ball.

Can anyone at all explain the reason why Trap persists with nonsensical substitution such as Cox playing on the wing or even bringing on Sammon when there are superior options on the bench. Such changes are costing us points and none more recent than the Austria game. Also thought McClean was very poor when he came on, was not clever in possession, created very well and was generally wasteful. The lad needs a bit of guidance - hopefully wherever he ends up playing next year, it is with a strong manager who can help him return to the form of his first year in the EPL.

Forde, excellent, particularly on crosses. However, his distribution remains suspect.

Sledger is not the same player he was for us a couple of years ago- needs to get regular first team football.

Long, Coleman, McCarthy each developing into fine players. Those three along with the development of other young players such as Brady, Duffy, Hendrick, Wilson are the future.

England have serious threat down the wings, but never used it effectively. Its easy to see how they could be a very good team but seem to be disjointed and lacking direction. With the squad they have, they should be contending for honours.

**Charlie Darwin** · 30/05/2013, 10:08 PM

I actually thought Forde's kicking from hand was very good. He has a very elegant style. His kicking from the ground is suspect though. Of all our keepers, I think Westwood is the best at kicking from the ground but Forde's short distance passing is the best.

**SkStu** · 30/05/2013, 10:22 PM

Solid performance. However our inability or reluctance to hold the ball/maintain possession is killing this team.

In the second half, particularly the last 20 mins. All we did was hoof the ball up field and give it back to England. As a result, we dropped deeper and deeper and resulted in having almost every player in our half behind the ball.

I agree with this but we were playing a team that was almost as bad as us at holding onto the ball. It was actually a pretty interesting clash. England are a bang average team in fairness.

**Charlie Darwin** · 30/05/2013, 10:37 PM

It's interesting because, man for man, you'd say the English players were almost all more technically gifted than ours, plus their players are faster and better at making themselves available for passes. McGeady over the Arsenal wingers is possibly the only position we have a clear advantage in terms of ball retention, and he has notable deficiencies. That's why I think it's more cultural than an ability thing why British-style teams are so bad at retaining the ball. We cede the ball to teams that are no more technically gifted than our players are, and in many cases less so.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 30/05/2013, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Baku is the capital of Azerbaijan. Kerala is a communist state. Anything else?

I meant something interesting.

About the Irish soccer team...

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

POS's argument basically goes like this: A great goalkeeper doesn't make mistakes. Forde hasn't made any mistakes so far, but he will in future. Therefore Forde is not a great goalkeeper.

Which on the basis of his club performances he will...
Clearly no-one wishes this on him. But he's no world-beater either.

Personally would like to see Westwood get back in there if he ever sorts his career out...

**DannyInvincible** · 30/05/2013, 11:54 PM

I see England's friendly with Brazil has been suspended due to safety concerns over the Maracan�: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22725420

The decision to suspend the game may yet be overturned, however.

**Charlie Darwin** · 30/05/2013, 11:56 PM

I think it's just posturing. They've had months to suspend the game and haven't bothered until now. It'll go ahead.

**tricky_colour** · 31/05/2013, 1:48 AM

Well we shall cross the mistaken bridge when we come to it.
I imagine the England team would be glad to see the back of him.

**BonnieShels** · 31/05/2013, 9:14 AM

Who?

ENGLAND v BRAZIL going ahead.

**paul_oshea** · 31/05/2013, 9:48 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

It's also 'Forde hasn't made any mistakes yet but he will and when he does I'll be the wise owl who told you so'. It's like knowing England would have beaten us if it was for real, just like all those other teams we played away for real in the last 6 years, and just like England beat Ukraine and Macedonia and whoever else they failed to beat for real in the last few years.

We're ganging up on you Paul! Funny, you looked very happy last night

Its not that, its just what I see. I saw a couple of Milwall games also and definitely he could have done better in certain situations. I think some people are being a little over-confident, without seeing enough of him. They seem very reassured that we have found a capable successor to Given, after less than a handful of games, for a keeper who is approaching his mid 30s playing in the lower leagues of English football.

My argument is not that simple CD, its more obvious though. He is 33 years old and is playing for a team ranked low in the English Championship. He is definitely not a great goalkeeper.

I do also believe if England really needed to they would have beaten us, how many draws are played out in friendlies and then replicated in competitive games? They will qualify for Brazil, they will do what they need.

**paul_oshea** · 31/05/2013, 10:08 AM

"We cede the ball to teams that are no more technically gifted than our players are, and in many cases less so."

CD, I agree with this completely and before the Austria game we had eejits coming on here saying they were all technically superior to all our players, which is horsesh1t really, bar Whelan id say the majority of our players are technically sound.

Interestingly today in the English papers, they are saying hodgson has brought them back to the dark ages, saying that the future is futile playing this type of archaic football. I think this game showed up the limitations of the English game/playing style, its woken them all up to realise that the football is awful and years behind every other country, especially for a country with the "best" league in the world, the national team still reverts to type. What's even more interesting and what has been shown up solely in this game according to the media that is, that England have no plan B, that hodgson can only play a brand of football based on 1 style, 1 principal. It was funny because its exactly what most of us think about how our team play football, and Trap has no plan B. The media here have woken up to the fact that is to the detriment of their game, but can't understand why Hodgson is persisting with it.

The resemblance to the Irish national team and its many, many detractors is uncanny.

**Stuttgart88** · 31/05/2013, 11:19 AM

I don't think England played particularly well but I don't really agree with the "lines of 4" thing being touted by Lineker et al. I just don't think they're that good!

Rooney very clearly played wherever he could find space in the middle and final thirds, and was often an advanced playmaker rather than orthodox forward. Their full-backs got forward a lot, their wide players had pace and Lampard broke the line on many occasions.

If Lineker thinks England were rigid 442 I wonder what he thought of us!

Down the years England have always been shown up by more technical teams but often win because they're quite streetwise. They're good from set pieces and despite everyone's admiration for pretty football, the direct route often works. I remember a WC2010 warm-up game at Wembley against Mexico. Mexico passed them of the pitch - I mean really annihilated them - Vela missed 3 1-on-1s and Crouch scored twice from corners!

**Crosby87** · 31/05/2013, 11:24 AM

POSH this is probably a silly Question but has the draw given you any hope at all that Ireland reach the World Cup? Or do you still think it's not happening definitely?

And on the topic of the England game being cancelled, how could they have the whole Tourney in Brazil if that one match had to be cancelled due to safety concerns? Nightmare.

**Stuttgart88** · 31/05/2013, 11:37 AM

I think we can make a play-off still, though I wouldn't base my expectations on anything that happened at Wembley. Wembley taught us nothing we didn't know already. I think we could beat Austria away and I expect a draw, and I think Sweden at home could be a corker of a game that we could win with a bit of luck.

It'll also depend on the Sweden versus Austria results.

I think our chances of coming second will increase if we make fewer dumb mistakes at the back (that's two in two games now) and replace Whelan with a guy more comfortable on the ball. I don't think that will happen though.

If we did get to a play-off I think we'd be odds-against, but let's see.

btw, my mate is a logistics manager for a global media group (POSH - you know him, he works near you) and was in Brazil recently checking out the venues. He told me over lunch yesterday that the Maracana was nowhere near ready for a World Cup or even the ConFed Cup.

I don't think there was any speculation about the Maracana's safety at this point - so his comment was unsolicited.

**Mad Moose** · 31/05/2013, 11:58 AM

In pictures.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/g...nd-in-pictures

**BonnieShels** · 31/05/2013, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mad Moose

In pictures.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/g...nd-in-pictures

Hornpipes on grass? What a waste of time.

**paul_oshea** · 31/05/2013, 12:44 PM

Down the years England have always been shown up by more technical teams but often win because they're quite streetwise. They're good from set pieces and despite everyone's admiration for pretty football, the direct route often works. I remember a WC2010 warm-up game at Wembley against Mexico. Mexico passed them of the pitch - I mean really annihilated them - Vela missed 3 1-on-1s and Crouch scored twice from corners!

My only question is, how did you see that game?

POSH this is probably a silly Question but has the draw given you any hope at all that Ireland reach the World Cup? Or do you still think it's not happening definitely?

No. The main reason is because I want to go to brazil and when i want something it never happens. The stars collide and the world moves by my wants. Seriously though no I don't see it at all. We have seen false dawns before, but what we have seen more often is the same thing again, and people seeing them as new dawns/turn a page. We drew against England, so what? We keep drawing, when we need wins, nothing has changed. We aren't capable of doing enough to qualify, and that's to beat Sweden, and realistically to beat Austria away. If we got 6 points from the game, then yes we would have turned a page, and yes we would more than likely make the play-offs. But we won't because we simply aren't good enough.

He asked me stutts not you :P

They are more than a media company...

**paul_oshea** · 31/05/2013, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Mad Moose

In pictures.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/g...nd-in-pictures

Whats yer one from Eastenders doing in the Irish section.

**Stuttgart88** · 31/05/2013, 1:20 PM

I got to see ENG vs MEX by way of bizarre invention called a telly.

Is anyone seeing this as a false dawn? I think everyone sees it as a disjointed but gutsy performance that was good enough to get a draw in a Wembley friendly, and that not losing to England when they expect to beat us is quite nice.