England V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 29th May 2013 - Friendly

[paul_oshea]

Ya I suppose I was lamenting. Its just I felt that people are making him out to be this top keeper which he isn't, a top keeper that won't make mistakes. He hasn't made any yet and I hope he doesn't but he isn't a top keeper and as a result of that he is at Milwall.

[ArdeeBhoy]

He makes mistakes enough times for Millwall. A competent keeper, but no more than that. Can't see him playing above Division 2 regularly myself.

[Stuttgart88]

CBG, we'll never hold a torch to the standard of last Saturday but in Stockholm we looked pretty accomplished from front to back - and that was with Green and McCarthy in the middle.

I have become convinced that Whelan is not just struggling in his role. More importantly, his inability to get on top of things is setting the whole tone for the rest of the team. It's like slow ball in rugby - you can have the most dynamic three-quarter line in the world but ponderous half-backs would render them ineffective - and allow the opposition an initiative.

Forde is perfectly at home in the Irish team. That's plain to see. People underestimate how important it is to have a keeper the players trust. He's not Buffon or Neuer, but defenders want a keeper who does the nuts and bolts well and Forde has done this for us. Once Given and Bonner started getting the yips it showed and it took its toll on the rest of the team.

Dean Kiely was the same - he walked straight into the team when needed with no fuss whatsoever. Although I think Kiely is better than Forde, the way they command the jersey is similar.

And anyway, many a tier two country or worse has had a lower league standard keeper to great effect down the years. Also, look at England - they have had highly rated keepers who looked lost in the international shirt.

[tricky_colour]

The positive is were got a draw in the back yard of a team allegedly ranked 7th in the world,
that I think must put us in the top 3 if not no 1.

[Stuttgart88]

I wouldn't say we're the best but we're in the top 1.

[geysir]

Ya I suppose I was lamenting. Its just I felt that people are making him out to be this top keeper which he isn't, a top keeper that won't make mistakes. He hasn't made any yet and I hope he doesn't but he isn't a top keeper and as a result of that he is at Milwall.

It's difficult for some to factor in possible mistakes made 4 months down the road, in a review of his performance yesterday
But if you remember, he did make a mistake against Poland (kick out) and was forced to make a good save from a fierce shot,diving fast and low at full stretch
Out of interest, here's Alaba's goal. The shot went into the corner and would have been a very good save to make, even if Forde had been closer to the line. As we know a top class goalie like Given in his prime, got caught off his line for us.

Was Austria's most forward player actively offside, interfering with play?

[SwanVsDalton]

'Command the jersey' is the phrase for Forde alright. It's fairly remarkable how to the fore he's been since he came into the team, compared to Westwood (a decent goalie) whenever he deputised for Shay or came in last year. Definitely went into the role with a 'I'll be taking this one' attitude, and it's paying off handsomely. Great to see a player, particularly a keeper, make such a strong claim.

Psychologically I'd say Fordey's been helped in a career where he's bounced around the LOI, lower leagues and various loan stints before ending up in a team going from League 1 to the Championship. Gritty and determined. He's not a 'top keeper' - and never will be. But no one should underestimate the power of keeper with an authoritative attitude, and the streetsmarts to back it up.

As for the game - well I enjoyed it, atmosphere made it just above the average. Coleman was magnificent, although he's should take a 10 per cent cut of the goal blame (come on Seamus, don't just let him dander into the box). McCarthy is sheer class. I though Sledge had a really strong game with JOS, aside from the goal. Even Kelly did ok considering he always looks very uncomfortable at LB.

McGeady was maddening but, in his defence, I agree with CD - there were times he broke at pace (and McClean on one instance) but had to check back because there were very little options. Forwards too far away (and running away, towards the box), midfield far behind. Either a genuine box-to-box player or perhaps Wes, an intelligent attacking midfielder, would likely help.

I'm not writing Keane off yet because I also think he's the best finisher the side has. But if he's to play deeper with Long, the two have to get closer together. They almost linked up well last night (couple of flick ons just not quite coming off) but they never quite appear on the same wave length. It's very much a holding pattern up front and I'd agreed with anyone who suggested we need a permanent solution. Come on ya spagetti guzzler and give us some Hoolahan sure, see what's up.

Good to see Ireland's most unpopular footballer (Sammon) give his status a boost by shoulder charging an English defender in the spine with the ball already over the dead ball line.

[paul_oshea]

Does anybody really think we would have managed a draw if this was an important qualifier by the way? Don't kid yourselves, there was good point(s) in the game, the 3 younger lads, but really that's about it. England did not care for this or try too much bar the last 10 minutes. Brazil and finishing the season were on their minds, bar possibly Lampard who tried hard. It was typical of how we play and how when it matters we get beaten or we do what we did against Brazil over the last 2 years or slightly less.

Bar the 3 less, this result and performance was nothing different than we have witnessed previously, and had it mattered I'm sure England would have won.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Very much agreed, but with respect PO'S, tell us something we don't know...

[Stuttgart88]

Does anybody really think we would have managed a draw if this was an important qualifier by the way? Don't kid yourselves, there was good point(s) in the game, the 3 younger lads, but really that's about it. England did not care for this or try too much bar the last 10 minutes. Brazil and finishing the season were on their minds, bar possibly Lampard who tried hard. It was typical of how we play and how when it matters we get beaten or we do what we did against Brazil over the last 2 years or slightly less.

Bar the 3 less, this result and performance was nothing different than we have witnessed previously, and had it mattered I'm sure England would have won.

Had it mattered England might have fluffed it like they frequently do. No-one can tell. Maybe we'd have played better too.

I used a rugby analogy above (slow ball from half backs) to describe Whelan. I can think of another rugby analogy for Forde: Girvan Dempsey versus Rob Kearney. Dempsey didn't have Kearney's pace or flair and I think fans may not have liked him as much because of this - in fact many didn't like him at all; but he was 100% reliable and his teammates would have loved that. Any flair on top of the reliability is a bonus. When defenders don't trust their keeper they overstretch themselves, or get twitchy. I know - mine never trusted me!

[Olé Olé]

By my reckoning, the tide of the game turned firmly in England's favour when Cox came in, and even more so when Sammon did. Cox was unable to control the ball or provide link-up, like he normally can. The quality of defender he was up against was too strong. I don't think England would have held as much possession in attacking positions, if it weren't for our inability to hold the ball in their own half.

Hendrick looked out of sorts in the middle. Not that I aim to castigate the lad but pitting him against Carrick and Lampard is the highest challenge he's had to deal with and you could see the pace of the game caught him on the hop. It was still only a friendly though, at the end of the day.

Coleman and McCarthy and Long were immense. Fair play to them for putting up arguments for their selection that Trap couldn't possibly resist. A bit of their perseverance could do with rubbing off on Gibson. He would have been such an addition in the middle of the park last night.

[paul_oshea]

I'm not writing Keane off yet because I also think he's the best finisher the side has. But if he's too play deeper with Long, the two have to get closer together. They almost linked up well last night (couple of flick ons just not quite coming off) but they never quite appear on the same wave length. It's very much a holding pattern up front and I'd agreed with anyone who suggested we need a permanent solution. Come on ya spagetti guzzler and give us some Hoolahan sure, see what's up.

I noticed on a few occasions, of course once mcgeady had to be involved and walters another time, where Long and Keane made the exact run they were starting from different positions obviously but were going into the same point, and ending up not giving the wingers proper options. Definitely a pattern there and they don't have it. But has anyone bar Niall Quinn, maybe as he just did the donkey work, had that with Keane?

[paul_oshea]

Very much agreed but with respect PO'S, tell something we don't know...

Baku is the capital of Azerbaijan. Kerala is a communist state. Anything else?

[paul_oshea]

Had it mattered England might have fluffed it like they frequently do. No-one can tell. Maybe we'd have played better too.

I used a rugby analogy above (slow ball from half backs) to describe Whelan. I can think of another rugby analogy for Forde: Girvan Dempsey versus Rob Kearney. Dempsey didn't have Kearney's pace or flair and I think fans may not have liked him as much because of this - in fact many didn't like him at all; but he was 100% reliable and his teammates would have loved that. Any flair on top of the reliability is a bonus. When defenders don't trust their keeper they overstretch themselves, or get twitchy. I know - mine never trusted me!

If Forde was anything close to dempsey we will be fine.

[tricky_colour]

Oxlade. Sounds like something farmers would worry about in the 1800s.

Or some kind of soup perhaps.

[Stuttgart88]

If Forde was anything close to dempsey we will be fine.

Actually Dempsey versus Geordan Murphy would have been a better analogy. One steady but unspectacular, the other very exciting but not as reliable defensively. The fans preferred one but I believe the players preferred the other. Fans and players would prefer Kearney!

[SkStu]

Another 'alternative' English view...
Surprised cullotty 82 has not already posted, but this thread does feature our rotund friend with their dubious spelling...

http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/27-...rep-of-ireland

i dont get it...

[Stuttgart88]

Just to revert to Forde and his lowly club status versus his international form. I only vaguely remember Mick Kearns of Walsall. How was he for Ireland? My understanding was that he was very good for us, but I can't recall much, good or bad.

Geysir, Owls Fan, Noely?

[geysir]

It's a bit ridiculous to actually having to explain why Forde merits praise for his performances so far, when out of all the concerns about our team, the goalkeeper position is one of the least worrisome.
You'd have to be really hard up for objects of censure, to pick on Forde's shortcomings.

[Charlie Darwin]

POS's argument basically goes like this: A great goalkeeper doesn't make mistakes. Forde hasn't made any mistakes so far, but he will in future. Therefore Forde is not a great goalkeeper.