glen whelan is th worst player in the eu how be bluffs his way through a game i dont know there are far better prem player cant get a game.
They all where. And tbf a decent shimmy from Fat Francis...Originally Posted by KK77
glen whelan is th worst player in the eu how be bluffs his way through a game i dont know there are far better prem player cant get a game.
Tbf, he's better than Ward. But how he gets a game in the EPL/for Ireland still, is beyond me...
..we have the 2nd most substituted player in the Premiership.
Once again a Trap team does the business away from home. However, if we had played them at Lansdowne, we probably would have lost, assuming there wasn't a riot.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
England are a thouroughly predictable team, a bit like us in that sense, except they have some very good players, where we mostly have average/mediocre to good players. Walcott personafies this, he looks great against an average player like Stephen Kelly, but put him against the Italian left back or the Dutch left back, and he mightn't look so good.
On a side note, I really think England are going to miss Lampard and Gerrard in the years to come, whereas centre mid could be a very strong place for us with Macca, Hendrick and Meyler (and hopefully Gibson coming back). The English media always has their love in for certain players and I really don't get what they see in Carrick, who personafies averageness. James McCarthy is a far superior player in every sense. I haven't seen enough of Phil Jones to comment on him, but he seems to be the latest player to be bigged up by them, when he hasn't done anything of great note from what I can see. We really missed out on Cahill. The lad is a very good defender.
My ratings:
Forde - 9: Top performance from David. He's really made the number 1 jersey his own
Coleman 8: Business as usual from Seamus. Terrific player who has ironed out the defensive flaws in his game. His opposite number Johnson could take note. Seamus can play on the very biggest stage.
St Ledger - 5: Not his best performance in an Irish shirt.
O'Shea - 6: Decent shift from JOS.
Kelly - 5: I like the lad, but he was giving Walcott acres of space to exploit.
McGeady - 5: Tried to do too much at times and had a number of shots on goal when he should've passed. Wholehearted as ever though.
Walters - 6: Gamey player, who worked his socks off. Not a winger though and unless there is an absolute emergency with 2-3 players injured, he should never play there again.
Whelan - 5: Mediocre, but in fairness he always puts in some shift.
McCarthy - 8: Top performance from a terrific player. This fella like Coleman will go to the very top.
Long - 8: Great goal. Worked his socks off all night and won frees. Tired in the 2nd half.
Keane - 6: Good solid shift from Keano. He is clearly past it as a player, but he is a legend. Lots of our up and coming players could take note of Keano. Great pro.
I don't think we did finish the game well. We gave up two one-on-ones in that period and the moment Sammon came on was the moment we seemed incapable of playing any football at all in their half. The last 2-3 minutes was well played though, I'll agree.
Trap is just pathologically stuck to 442 and long-balls, and Glenn Whelan.
I'm surprised Walters is getting stick from some here. He wasn't spectacular but he did well enough and did what Trap asked him to do. It's not his fault his main task is to win flick ons most of the time.
It was really really noticable watching live just how consistently Whelan is a couple of feet off the pace. He never seems to have time on the ball and never sees the straightforward pass forward. I was sitting beside Crafty Toe Poke and he said he looks like an old pro whose legs have gone. I don't really blame him for the goal though. The ball should have been cut out relatively easily by St. Ledger (I thought it was O'Shea in real time) and we simply gifted them the equaliser.
Coleman was the one real class act in our team, and McCarthy showed some very good signs. Whelan was a passenger.
Apart from the goal St. Ledger was generally commanding, especially in the air, and O'Shea was fine. Kelly was so / so but nothing to give out about and put in a hard shift.
McGeady was frustrating as usual. Played well at times and made space at times but continues to take too much out of the ball and makes poor decisions. He plays with his head down too much. Similarly when McClean came on he cut back into play when he had acres of open space in front of him to attack.
Long and Keane both did well when you consider just how badly they are fed.
With regard to Trap:
Why bring on Cox, an orthodox central forward, only to move him to RHM after 10 mins to accommodate Sammon? Trap has played Cox at RHM about ten times now and he just does not have the toolkit to be a success in that position.
Sammon did better than against Austria, but it's embarrassing that Trap thinks he's the style of player he wants to use.
A mate at home says that the less Hoolahan is picked, the better he seems to get in public opinion (a fair point to some degree) but it was clear that we were crying out for a guy who actually wants the ball, is comfortable with it and who plays with his head up. I'm not saying he's Zidane, but he's a proper ball-playing footballer. Whelan just does not even do the nuts and bolts of basic central midfield anymore. I don't blame Trap for Gibson's exile but Gibson would have loved it out there last night. He and McCarthy would have been a far more functional and cohesive midfield. The whole tone of the performance is set by Whelan's continued presence: off the pace and panicky on the ball.
Final word goes to David Forde: I was nervous about him originally getting the jersey over Westwood but he is become a very very dependable 'keeper. He deals with crosses well, commands his defence, made important saves when asked, and handled tricky low balls across the six yard box very comfortably. Well done Fordey.
All in all though a fairly low key affair between two ordinary teams, with England having the only real quality on show apart from Coleman and McCarthy.
Was atmosphere any good on telly?
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 30/05/2013 at 10:21 AM.
Good summary from Bungle.
As for Carrick;Man.U's most under-rated player in the EPL. Which is why he still gets his game for the Ingles and is currently better than JMcC.
Though hope JMcC. might exceed him in the next 2 years.
Don't worry Stutts, they could all here you on tele!! I hope your kid enjoyed the game. A few more and he will be fully blooded in.
Stutts acknowledges that seeing players in the flesh gives you a far clearer perspective on their ability and positioning and general play. I've said that before in the past and I think some people saw that as some sort of superiority complex, but its 100% true. These were the things I saw from Ward away from home and Coleman(dragging) that doesn't always get picked up, or because you are seeing such a small area on the TV, that its not noticeable. Anyway, Kelly was making up for his lack of space by sticking tight to the 18 yard line so no one could get in behind him and expose his lack of pace. I think this worked as he generally defended well when they came in at him, but we still lacked wilson there, granted he isn't the fastest either.
I'd agree mostly with Bungle and stutts summations. However I think people are getting a bit carried away with Forde. He is very commanding under a high ball, but his reactionary and getting his body down low is not up to standard. Those two shots were straight at him, he did well to close his legs and knees to block the shot, but getting down low or instinctive reactions are not there. I'm not blaming him for the goal, but I think someone like hart would have got something on that for example. The second goal against Austria for example he was way off his line considering how far out their players were from goal. He got easily lobbed for that goal, whereas had he been further back he would have saved it easily. Last night he was always way out of his goal. I'm not sure why he does this, perhaps he is barking instructions at his defenders. His ability under pressure to clear the ball is woeful, and that's what started Englands attack for the goal. I think we will get caught out worse with this, as opposing teams do the analysis on him.
Coleman and McCarthy were very good. I think both teams are very average, England are us but with two speedy wingers. They are setup the same way pretty much but can actually counter attack. Neither team played at 100% or looked close to it. I think it mattered more to us, and in a proper match England would have beaten us. What really came home for me though last night was how average England are, they will really struggle at next years World Cup, and they don't realise that their League is no reflection of the ability of their national team. The English team will get left behind by the wealthy foreign owners buying up the top clubs. I think last night also drove home how average we are too, but should still be well capable of beating a team like Austria at home.
I would have taken a loss to England and qualifying for the World cup. I would have taken a loss to England and beating Austria. But I think for International football in Ireland and national interest this game, and the draw was important.
Last edited by paul_oshea; 30/05/2013 at 11:02 AM.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
A "5" rating for Sledge Bungle?
Doc where are you?
And that's well done POSH. It goes with a lot of sports, when you are there in person you are also seeing what the player is doing away from the ball, puck, bean bag, etc.... which Wayne Gretzky said was actually more important than what they do WITH the ball, puck, widget etc... at times.
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
Positives
Coleman - really maturing & glad Trap has realised he is worth a place in the team (should have done better for English goal though)
Long- a real threat & a fantastic goal.
McCarthy - hope we find somebody decent to play next to him asap. Nice to have a footballer in the engine room for once who doesn't treat the ball like a ticking bomb.
Forde - solid.
Our defending at set pieces - brilliant.
The realisation of how bad England really are when you see em in the flesh. Lots of snide comments from their local media saying we are just a Championside side....well if we are Forest/Derby then England are only Watford.
Negatives-
McGeady - complete waste of time. Play Brady or beg Duff to come back.
Whelan - passenger. Our biggest pass combo from last night must be Whelan to Forde.
Kelly- looked ropey at times.
Enjoyed the game & atmosphere from our end. Must say the English fans were very muted. Is it the ground acoustics?
The positive is that we didn't lose.
There is nothing else really to take from that game except that our future in this campaign is even grimmer.
Possibly Trap won't consider dropping McCarthy in favour of Whelan again. But we don't know that yet.
The consistent theme is with our dreadful football and Trap's bizarre decision process.
Agree completely. McCarthy would have been a far more potent player with Gibson playing beside him. I have gotten to the point where I would rather play with ten players than play with Whelan.
Taking stock of last night's game, we remain a team which is very nervous on the ball. I blame Trap (not his fault to begin with but he should have taken command and changed it) for not devoting every second training session to ball possession (be it playing against a Rovers or Bohs reserve team or a Leinster Junior team just to get their composure and build from there). Until we fix that flaw we're always going to be second rate. Also we are crying out for a player (or two) who can hold the ball up in the final third. Keane could do it consistently a while ago but as we all know he's past it now. Duff used to be able to do it but Long clearly cannot, as much as he is good at other things. Sammon cannot either and Doyle was never good at making the ball stick. Walters seems to be the only one who can do this - maybe Robbie Brady can fit into that equation some time soon?
Looking forward to the return games with Sweden and Austria, I feel less fearful about the Austria game because we always seem to perform well away. Sweden is a toss up. But there are several flaws that need to be worked on (Hoolahan for Whelan), Gibson to come back if he's "ready" and Wilson in at left back (Kelly was woeful at times there last night). And of course ball possession.
Good post there from mark12345
Did they have much to cheer, besides the goal?
Gentrification of football? And home crowds are often more subdued than their visitors.
Almost entirely agree, but I think Sledge is far more culpable than Whelan for the goal,; he just missed it inexplicably and Whelan hadn't anticipated such a basic mistake. In almost any other regard though I thought Whelan was culpable!
I'm glad shakermaker highlighted our defending from set pieces. Really really good.
I can't agree with POSH's view of Forde, sorry Paul. He was blameless for second Austria goal. He has been thoroughly convincing in doing the parts of his job that defenders crave a goalie to do.
There's a relatively new technique in goalkeeping, probably influenced by Schmeichel, in spreading all your limbs in close-in one on ones and I agree that maybe Forde hasn't mastered that, but for me he exudes the calm confidence of Packie in his prime. Not afraid to come and collect high balls, sweeping well, taking low crosses confidently. As long as a keeper does that and the bread and butter saves, anything on top of that is gravy as far as I'm concerned. The way he dealt with that inswinger that missed everyone in Stockholm was masterful. Paul Robinson used to let them in every time!
My 7 y/o did think he kicked the ball too long at times though.
He did a couple of times, and more times too shortAt the end of the day Given would have saved us more goals than Forde would get close to. He is good at relieving pressure in one sense, but he puts us under it in another way. He cant get down low quickly either. He is at milwall for a reason, I'm sorry but its true.
Does anyone else notice the resonance from Trap about Long, Coleman, McCarthy,[Wilson], over the last few months. I think Trap is somehow trying to take credit that he has somehow influenced their progression and readied them for international football, when realistically people have been calling for this for about 1.5-2 years.....but its better that they are playing than not no doubt, and that they are being singled out for praise - for whatever reasons - but I feel most of it has been forced.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
Which Given are you comparing Forde to?He did a couple of times, and more times too short
Pre or post the home games against Armenia/Macedonia?
If it's pre - then you are comparing Forde to an Irish version of a world class keeper.
If it's post- then I would disagree.
Last edited by geysir; 30/05/2013 at 2:23 PM.
I dont think I've watched a game involving the national side dispassionately as I did last night. O.k I didn't want them to lose, least of all to England, but what stayed in my mind was the contrast in technique and ability of last night's game at Wembley with the game last Saturday night.
totally agree on the sentiments re. Whelan, as for Sammon? Better say nothing!
''and I for one welcome our new insect overlords''
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