It is in Leinster & Ulster...Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Once maybe. Now just better, they're humiliated annually by all & sundry...Personally, I'd be in favour of splitting into the five historic provinces of Ireland and have Meath play with themselves every year.
Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it an awful idea. How in the name of God has hurling been destroyed by adding tiers to it? All that has happenened is that your Tyrone's and Mayo's now have a championship to play in. It has made virtually no difference whatsoever to the status quo in hurling. None.
In football 2 tiers would mean that imo all 33 football teams would start each year in with a chance of an all Ireland title or at the very least a good run.
I cannot understand why creating two divisions in the football championship would be bad for the game. It works in virtually every other sport in the world. But it would be awful for GAA ?
Sounds like a runner, for at least a trial period...
In hurling it has allowed the the Big-3 a second bite at the cherry which inevitably means that those once-off shocks will be wiped away come the semi-final stage. That was what I meant about hurling "being destroyed".
If hurling had been run with a similar qualifying format to football we would see more teams in the main championship more often and more opportunities for middling teams to face each other.
What has happened is that a clear definable "Top-tier" has formed with a chasm between them and the rest. A chasm that will never be breached with the way hurling is dealt with.
Cork, Tipp and Kilkenny will always be dominant and that will never change. However the chances of a period like the 1990's where we had 6 different winners and 8 different finalists in 10 years ever happening again is impossible to see with the current system in place.
Significant investment in Dublin hurling is what got it to where it is. But no other "weak" county could hope to achieve that sort of result.
In football there's always scope for a county to come good. I mean look at Armagh and Donegal. They would have been conceivably been "weaker counties" at some stage in the fairly recent past.
Also with the uproar of the Offaly and Wicklow defeats at the hands of Tyrone and Armagh respectively why was there no uproar about Kildare playing in the Senior Championship afte Dublin whipped them for the second match in succession?
It's all too easy to complain about having sub-standard teams in the championship and as a Munster man I'm sure you're all too aware at the gash nature of your provincial championship as a result but again the issue at hand here is the investment in the game and what teams want to achieve?
Would Meath (who were Div 3 don't forget this season) who reached the All-Ireland semi in 2009, Wexford (who reached a semi in 2008) or Fermanagh in 2004 prefer that or to have won some lowly lower-tier title that will have no real cache and let's be honest will not help them in the long run.
I had developed a pretty comprehensive championship structure in 2009 but it's hidden deep in the bowels of my gmail. I'll root it out.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
As I said how has the introduction of tiers to the hurling championship destroyed it? I think its the back door system you have an issue with.
So the back door is bad because it allows the bigger counties a second bit of the cherry - but it is good because it allows the middling teams to face each other more often ? You can't please everyone but I'm old fashioned - I like teams to EARN the right to play big games. Not just get it handed to them.
The Hurling championship has been pretty good this year it will be interesting to see if it continues. Limerick and Dublin are in provincial finals - both playing in a lower tier of the league - hasn't done them any harm either.
Correct - Under a two tier system they would be 2 years from an all ireland final instead of the one they are now. Does any Div.4 team have a realistic shot at an all ireland in 1 year ? The momentum of winning an important* "championship" could be significant also.
To be fair - comparing Kildare with the Wicklow and Offaly games is not fair surely - there is difference between conceding 15 points in a row and what happened at Croker on Sunday.
The key issue for me is not investment - its making a second tier an "important" competition. That will be a huge challenge.
Does the intermediate hurler or footballer devalue his county medal just because he doesn't play with a senior team. The whole of the GAA is modeled so that teams of comparable ability play against one another - except for the senior championships at inter county level
Nothing rational holds the championship structure together except tradition imo.
*obviously the question is how important is it?
If anything, the problem with hurling is that too many counties have been promoted into the Liam McCarthy in recent years - the Christy Ring Cup was a vibrant competition in the first few years, but now with Westmeath, Carlow, London and Down promoted, the only second-tier county remaining is Kerry, who would be massacred if they returned to Munster. The senior championship should have a base level of ten counties - the five Munster teams plus Kilkenny, Dublin, Galway, Wexford and Offaly - using the qualifiers and relegation playoffs, the bottom side would be replaced by the winners of a new second-tier involving the counties mentioned in the first sentence, along with Laois and Antrim.
When they tried to introduce relegation play-offs to the championship, too many counties, especially Antrim and Clare as I recall, made a stink for it to be palatable to the higher-ups, and it was quietly dropped.
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
You are talking about football?
I don't remember the time when Donegal or Armagh would have been regarded as a weaker county. Both those teams have been in the top half for decades.
Hurling has a wider chasm in quality than football.
In recent times we saw a mid level div 4 Wicklow beat Kildare in the LSFC and Down in the qualifiers. When in hurling would you ever see a div 4 county beat a top tier team?
I don't mind the football system as it is, provincial championships, open draw qualifiers, all merging at the 1/4 final stage. It has endured a passage of time with just a bit of fine tuning, that's a sign that it's working.
I don't care that much about hurling to have an opinion about the set up.
Football Qualifier Round 3 and 4 Draws
Galway / Armagh v Cork
Wexford / Laois v Loser Donegal / Monaghan
Kildare / Tyrone v Meath
Derry / Cavan v Loser London / Mayo
If Derry play London in the 4th round will it be known as the London/Derry game or just the Derry game?
That was gonna be my joke. Boo.
Hmmm... Although that game is going to be away for London as that's how it was drawn, if they had been drawn first (and assuming thye lose to Mayo) would it have been played in Ruislip as this is the All-Ireland Series and not the Connacht Championship which is what prevented them from playing Leitrim in Ruislip in the last round?
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
4th round games are at neutral venues.
Duh. Dang. Cheers.
But either way does anyone know the answer say if they were drawn at home in the 3rd round where they would play or does the Connacht rule continue?
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Tyrone-Meath will be tasty.
"If God had meant football to be played in the air, he'd have put grass in the sky." Brian Clough.
You'll NEVER beat the Irish.......you'll just draw with us instead!!!
AS it stands I can see the following happen:
Galway v Armagh
Wexford v Laois
Kildare v Tyrone
Derry v Cavan
Armagh v Cork
Wexford v Monaghan
Tyrone v Meath
Derry v London
QF1: Armagh v Kerry
QF2: Wexford v Dublin
QF3: Tyrone v Donegal
QF4: Derry v Mayo
SF1: Mayo v Donegal
SF2: Dublin v Armagh
F: Dublin v Mayo
W: Dublin
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Its an open draw for the QF's anyway so its impossible to know who from the qualifiers will play whom.
But if you think Armagh will beat Cork and then Kerry I want some of what you are smoking.
As it stands I expect the 4 to emerge from the qualifiers to be Cork, Monaghan, Tyrone, and Derry and I don't expect any of that 4 to trouble the 4 expected provincial champions so Dubin v Kerry and Donegal v Mayo in the semis. Latest odds:
Dublin 15/8
Kerry 7/2
Donegal 4/1
Mayo 4/1
Cork 10/1
Tyrone 25/1
From a punting perspective Donegal at 4/1 to retain the all Ireland seems a little on the long side.
I know it's open draw. But I was guessing. Guessing I say.
Armagh and Kerry have previous so I reckon that that's how it would transpire should they meet. I have an inkling. An inking I say.
Stop getting all serious.
I think no matter who comes through the Qualifiers and into the QF it's gonna be a serious end to this championship.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Sorry! London for the AI!
Better!
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Actually would you have said that Donegal would beat Cork and Kerry last year on the way to the AI?
I'm not for one second remotely comparing the quality of that Donegal team with Armagh but...
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks